Lab with urinary sphincter incompetence

RE: Lab with urinary sphincter incompetence

Beats — Tue, 26 Feb 2019 22:04:40 GMT

new review in March's Vet Clinics of North America (mind you, on 30sec skim didn't spot anything new...)

RE: Lab with urinary sphincter incompetence

Lucy Fleming — Tue, 26 Feb 2019 12:26:57 GMT

Actually, this is reminding me of a similar case in a (male) springer spaniel - displayed occasional urine leakage when asleep, almost exclusively after a session of ball retrieving, during which he generally drank excessively from troughs etc (presumably due to high intensity exercise). Eventually, after a few red herrings, he was diagnosed with ectopic ureters. Presumably when awake he had enough skeletal muscle tone in the urethra to maintain continence, but the "perfect storm" of being deeply asleep after strenuous exercise, with a full bladder from drinking a lot, manifested the underlying anatomical defect. He was about 2 years old when diagnosed. It's a bit of an zebra, with hormonal USMI being the horse, but might be worth considering?

RE: Lab with urinary sphincter incompetence

Anthony Todd — Tue, 26 Feb 2019 08:56:37 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]

Could it be the extreme exercise means she has a super deep sleep and everything relaxes far more or shes just too tired to wake up for a wee? Or is that too simplistic

[/quote]

Not really. Maybe just reducing water intake in the evening to metabolic via the boiled, room temp, trick, may reduce bladder pressure and volume so that the sphincter can cope.

SG of the voided urine should tell you if the volume is excessive.

Often was all that was needed BITD??

[cystitis is frequent, incontinence is flooding]

RE: Lab with urinary sphincter incompetence

Kate Richardson — Mon, 25 Feb 2019 21:18:55 GMT

Could it be the extreme exercise means she has a super deep sleep and everything relaxes far more or shes just too tired to wake up for a wee? Or is that too simplistic

RE: Lab with urinary sphincter incompetence

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Tue, 19 Feb 2019 19:40:11 GMT

[quote user="Jo Dyer"]

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]This latest episode seemed to be triggered by extreme exercise involving a manic retrieving session.[/quote]

Did she do lots of retrieving from water, Clare, or was it all on dry land?

[/quote] all on land , not when bladder full , dry all night , weird . Will wait until the next time !

RE: Lab with urinary sphincter incompetence

Jo Dyer — Tue, 19 Feb 2019 13:02:14 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]This latest episode seemed to be triggered by extreme exercise involving a manic retrieving session.[/quote]

Did she do lots of retrieving from water, Clare, or was it all on dry land?

RE: Lab with urinary sphincter incompetence

Lucy Fleming — Tue, 19 Feb 2019 08:41:17 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

Does a uti cause incontinence? If so, why?

And I suspect if it does, propalin wouldn't help, surely??

[/quote]

I've seen a couple of cases where a UTI seems to unmask USMI. I've supposed that a 'weak' sphincter makes an ascending UTI more likely, then inflammation associated with the UTI increases urgency and leads to leakage when relaxed. Sometimes, if other signs of a UTI are reported by the owner (stranguria when awake, haematuria, licking perineum, malodourous urine) I've seen an antibiotic course apparently resolve the USMI, but I suspect it just returns to sub-clinical levels, and always warn the owner they'll likely need to start treatment for this sooner or later.

RE: Lab with urinary sphincter incompetence

David Mills — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 23:34:31 GMT

[quote user="Emily Rainbow"]

I would cysto for culture etc first.

Considering shes so young it may be worth imaging with contrast to see whether she has an intrapelvic bladder/wide neck to see whether surgery might be appropriate rather than the next 10-12yrs on propalin etc.

[/quote]

Does a uti cause incontinence? If so, why?

And I suspect if it does, propalin wouldn't help, surely??

RE: Lab with urinary sphincter incompetence

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 22:08:43 GMT

Hi Emily , i suspect you might be right. Just the way she has always urinated suggests it is structural somehow. It looks like a water filled whooppee cushion has emptied , very fast emptying of a significant amount if urine from her bladder with little effort if you know what I mean. This latest episode seemed to be triggered by extreme exercise involving a manic retrieving session. Today , dry vulva , no leaking when bladder full , urine normal. thanks everyone for your advice

RE: Lab with urinary sphincter incompetence

Emily Rainbow — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:41:49 GMT

I would cysto for culture etc first.

RE: Lab with urinary sphincter incompetence

David Mills — Sun, 17 Feb 2019 19:58:02 GMT

No need for full invesitagtion, normally just start on propalin (if urine not obviously smelly/abnormal) and titrate down, be very very surprised if doesn't solve it. Normally get down to very low amounts q24 or q12.

RE: Lab with urinary sphincter incompetence

Joyce Whitehead — Sun, 17 Feb 2019 19:44:51 GMT

I usually start with Propalin, as you can as said above titrate to effect. I also always start on bid as I think a rep told me years ago that this usually works fine, and in my experience it does.

RE: Lab with urinary sphincter incompetence

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Sun, 17 Feb 2019 19:21:39 GMT

[quote user="Liz Barton"]

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]inciting and Propalin[/quote]

Presumably incurin (or incurring as my predictive text would have it! Love some of the computer attempts at correcting medical terminology)

Still the same go-to's. I tend to start with Propalin if TID dosing isn't a problem. Also easier to titrate to effect.

[/quote] oops yes , incurin haha

RE: Lab with urinary sphincter incompetence

Liz Barton — Sun, 17 Feb 2019 16:23:46 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]inciting and Propalin[/quote]

Presumably incurin (or incurring as my predictive text would have it! Love some of the computer attempts at correcting medical terminology)

Still the same go-to's. I tend to start with Propalin if TID dosing isn't a problem. Also easier to titrate to effect.

RE: Lab with urinary sphincter incompetence

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Sun, 17 Feb 2019 12:33:08 GMT

When I say should have full investigation she will have , just wondering what latest advice is re inciting and Propalin or if there’s something new

RE: Lab with urinary sphincter incompetence

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Sun, 17 Feb 2019 11:04:29 GMT

Just to add to this she did have two or three episodes as a three to four month old pup when she emptied her bladder in a deep sleep but has been completely normal since then.