Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

grumpyoldman — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 21:55:29 GMT

We have had this several times with valid certificates being photocopied and then the dates tampered with before being sold on. Its crap when you find out and best to just sack the client immediately ,not that it makes much difference as they are already on a half a dozen other peoples records. The other problem i have had for a number of years and the manufacturer has persistently refused to change their packaging is the double labelling on particularly Vanguard 7. This gives your enterprising Pickey twat breeder a golden opportunity to halve doses or just vaccinate every other puppy.

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

Bob Russell — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 10:44:16 GMT

Worth an update!

According to the puppy owner it has been confirmed that the vaccination record was fraudulent. The 'breeder' just Googled to get the name of a vet!!!

The owners decided to track down the vet named on the paperwork to confirm events and the vet by all accounts is not very happy that his/her name has been used like this. Action is pending!

I tried to contact the vet involved using the number I was given (but not via the RCVS) and it was not answered.

If the vet involved is on VetSurgeon and would like information he/she can PM me of course.

Not crime of the century but it cannot be nice to find your hard earned qualifications are being misappropriated!

Just to avoid paying for a vaccination for a puppy being sold.

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

ell — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 10:31:49 GMT

Looks like US.

https://www.zoetisus.com/products/dogs/vanguard-damp.aspx

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

Bob Russell — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 09:18:37 GMT

In the UK?

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

Richard Carter — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 18:31:56 GMT

can still get measles/ distemper dog vaccs for areas where the distemper disease is still high prevalence and most breeding bitches have distemper maternal antibodies affecting vaccine success - made by zoetis/ vanguard.

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 16:05:23 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]but I wonder if there is a possibility that the measles vaccine could interfere with the response to the distemper vaccine. [/quote]

No, it won't. That was one of the reasons for using a measles vaccine.

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

Bob Russell — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 11:30:31 GMT

Not likely to be a problem as we used to give measles from a very young age then vaccinate normally.

I assume the vaccine (if given at all) is an illegal import from a country with a distemper problem or a human vaccine.

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

Julie Innes — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 11:22:27 GMT

Funnily enough I also had my "measles" vaccinated puppy (with no certification, naturally) in this morning. My client was told by the breeder that the measles vaccine would protect the pup for "up to 5 months". Obviously we restarted, but I wonder if there is a possibility that the measles vaccine could interfere with the response to the distemper vaccine. Anyone know?

As an aside, my puppy also had the tips of his ears glued to his head!! Seems like a great breeder...

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

Bob Russell — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 10:05:39 GMT

Puppy has started a proper vaccination course. To add to the 'mix' the breeder is a family member albeit at cousin level!

New owners are convinced that no vaccination was given.

I suspect they were pushing for details of the vaccination given and the so called breeder made the whole thing up to save embarrassment!

Bet that has backfired!

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

Nicola Cole — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 02:50:09 GMT

I reported a similar situation a few years back to the police (after discussing with RCVS first)-they got the breeder to come down to the police station...hopefully that put them off doing it again!

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

Beats — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 20:04:46 GMT

Sometimes branding helps.

I discussed dodging discussions on authenticity or otherwise of breeder vaccinations with new grad this week in the confines of a 10minute consult and discussed whether such discussions were a good use of time or not (I would suggest usually not).

I suggested vagueness can be your friend and if the puppy is there for a vaccine (or a check and you think it would be best to have a vaccine) then vaccinate it and simply book it for its "3rd" or "4th" or even simply "next" vaccine in 4 weeks time... rather than explaining needs to "restart" vaccinations or have a "repeat primary course" or something. Alternatively branding vaccines by age can help: "So looks like he's due his 12 week vaccine then".

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 18:47:25 GMT

I have no truck with these. They are invalid full stop. Sadly we know there are vets all too ready to falsify vaccine records for financial gain! I would attempt to contact the vet for their story if it was unsuitable or unforthcoming I would complain to the RCVS. If there's enough detail to identify the breeder I would then report them to their local trading standards. I suspect nothing would come from either but at least I know I've done what I should. I would give the puppy a week quarantine at home before starting a full vaccine course.

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

Sam — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 18:24:28 GMT

We had something similar a few years ago. A pup arrived at our practice with a vaccination certificate with our practice details on it but with the name and signature of a vet who was completely unknown to us. It was not one of our usual vaccination cards either. I was concerned both for myself as the practice owner and for the other vet whose name was being used. I contacted the RCVS but they did not care at all. However I wanted to be sure that I had shouted first in case a complaint were to arise from these false vaccination certificates. If it had done I am sure the RCVS would have given me months of grief anyway!

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

James Dunne — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 15:58:55 GMT

You're kind of damned either way. You can't accept the certificate in its current format, so you're starting from scratch anyway. The client won't appreciate the seriousness of all of this, so there's the potential for them to be aggrieved. The dodgy breeder will no doubt use the usual accusation of vets being money-grabbers to alienate the client further - if in fact the client has any way of contacting them. If it's a vet without a clue that their name is being used, they need to be informed. And if it's a vet without a clue generally, it's worth trying to get their contact details and let them know what's happening but sadly there are those within our profession who don't mind what they sign either.

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

Bob Russell — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 14:40:07 GMT

I am really more concerned that we either have a vet without a clue or (more likely) a breeder that has downloaded a form from the internet and picked a vets' name to put on that form.

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

James Dunne — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 14:22:20 GMT

Hi Bob

We see a reasonable amount of this kind of dodgy behaviour. Our practice policy is to not accept a certificate if there is no veterinary signature and/or if there is a lack of clarity as to the origin of the dog presented. We have had two instances of animals dying from parvovirus confirmed, when they were supposed to have had a primary course, had what they thought was a 'v2' and presented with disease at 9-10 months of age in each case. We have had occasional instances of breeders creating a practice stamp to put on the back of generic certificates to add authority to what they hand out, invariably unsigned. Given the level of severity poor certification is addressed with by the powers that be, it makes sense to offer to start from scratch with what's coming into you!

Kind regards

James

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

Julie Innes — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 14:14:48 GMT

Whoops . hope that doesn't show how little I listened to my old boss!!

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

Bob Russell — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 14:11:41 GMT

Nope!

Measles and distemper are closely related. Measles vaccine was used in high risk litters where distemper was the highest threat (pre-parvo!). It was not blocked by maternal distemper antibodies.

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

Julie Innes — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 14:00:19 GMT

Funnily enough we had a pup the other day, I think from Ireland, that the breeder purports has been vaccinated against measles. don't think there was any certification with it, but it was my colleague who saw it. I have a dim recollection of my previous boss telling me that before they had a vaccination against parvo, when it first appeared they gave measles vaccine??

Seems very odd and dodgy to be doing so when there is a proper parvo vaccine??

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

Bob Russell — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 13:38:36 GMT

The vet's name is typed on the record. I have just downloaded an identical health record from Google.

Nothing suggests that the named vet knows that her name is being used. I cannot see any vet vaccinating puppies like this.

More likely this may be fraud.

Sadly there is no discoverable number for me to talk to the vet in person.

If she has given this cocktail then so be it but if her name is being used without her knowledge then she should be made aware if possible.

It goes without saying that we are restarting the vaccinations!!!

Duphar used to manufacture a measles vaccine for very young puppies 30 odd years ago.

RE: Dodgy puppy vaccinations?

Linda Filshie — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 13:31:10 GMT

To be honest the "cert" isn't worth the paper it's written on and I would just assume unvaccinated and do a primary course. I've never in the last 15 years heard of a measles vaccine for dogs. If breeder is contactable you could ask the owner to get the address of the veterinary surgery the vaccines were done at but I would suspect this will be a fruitless endeavour.

Edited to add that there are some papers from the 70s and 80s that refer to joint measles/CDV vaccination for protection against distemper. Every day is a learning day!