Making practices greener?

RE: Making practices greener?

Liz Barton — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 21:36:30 GMT

Just came across this if anyone is interested in doing some CPD on this. Apparently Davies are the first practice to receive accreditation from Investors in the Environment. Webinar by them on this topic; costs £30 14th Jan

http://www.thewebinarvet.com/pages/register-one-practices-journey-towards-environmental-sustainability/

RE: Making practices greener?

Lindsey Edwards — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 19:45:02 GMT

I use the plastic/paper disposable drapes in some circumstances especially badly contaminated wounds/sections etc but also find the fabric drapes nicer in that they drape the patient and don't slide around any where near as much (I use minimal/no towel clamps...as a surgical nurse said to me as a student how would you feel if you had 1-2 or even 4-6 clipped to your own skin for the duration of surgery...quite like tearing the wound apart I am sure!)

Yes it takes (effort) energy to wash and prep drapes - soak in cold water first, then include in wash with surgical attire (scrubs/gowns etc - washing machine on anyway; dedicated machine for use for same; washed when full load is available). Packed in a SINGLE autoclave pouch (one side is admittedly plastic) and autoclaved with instruments (when machine also running anyway). Have sufficient drapes so that they can be prepped as and when suits - last a long time as long as not incised with scalpel; best on lower autoclave setting 125 not 134??)

In reducing plastic use a blood contaminated, bonded paper-plastic construct is far from recyclable/compostable in any form and alongside the production impact and transport etc of such an item, it is packed in at least the same single pack/pouch that I use in the autoclave, as well as the copious quantities of outer packaging.

RE: Making practices greener?

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 16:52:21 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]Which (and from where) do you use?[/quote]

IMS again

https://imseuro.co.uk/veterinary/drapes-sterile-75cm-x-90cm.html

We have a couple of sizes. Plastic on one side (to prevent strikethrough) and paper on the other keeps the dog clean and prevents blood/fluids seeping under the drape.

~50p each. Best I've used.

RE: Making practices greener?

Rob Loxley — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 16:44:26 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="villagevet"]Minimal amount of single use consumables - reusable drapes etc[/quote]

I'm not convinced this saves anything. By the time you've washed, dried, removed hair, packed, autoclaved then disposable drapes are much better for the environment IMO

[/quote]

Which (and from where) do you use?

RE: Making practices greener?

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 15:04:35 GMT

[quote user="villagevet"]- All post-op patients wrapped in foil 'space blankets' if cold rather than heating blankets/huggers[/quote]

We used to do that and then bought the warm air blower and recoveries are so much better, I'd never go back.

[quote user="villagevet"]Minimal amount of single use consumables - reusable drapes etc[/quote]

I'm not convinced this saves anything. By the time you've washed, dried, removed hair, packed, autoclaved then disposable drapes are much better for the environment IMO.

We burn whatever we can on site. We have LED flat panel lighting throughout. In general there's not much more I am willing to do. The nature of any medical practice is we will generate waste.

RE: Making practices greener?

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 14:59:56 GMT

[quote user="villagevet"]{looking for economical all paper autoclave pouches if anyone has suggestions?}. [/quote]

IMS do a range that you seal with tape

https://imseuro.co.uk/veterinary/gusseted-sterilisation-pouches-d-140-x-75-x-250mm.html

RE: Making practices greener?

Joyce Whitehead — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 11:02:18 GMT

On the HS front, we return the cardboard boxes to them for recycling/reuse. We are very rural so no chance of anything other than driving in. My husband has changed to a hybrid car as he does the most miles of driving, which has reduced his fuel costs and hopefully environmental damage. We might consider changinf to hybrid for the other practice cars as the leases come up for renewal.

RE: Making practices greener?

Rob Loxley — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 10:09:49 GMT

[quote user="villagevet"]All rigid plastic (syringe caps etc), paper sides of syringe/needle packaging, boxes etc are recycled[/quote]

Are you paying a commercial contractor to recycle your waste? Which one and what kind of costs?

[quote user="villagevet"]Installed all LED lighting last year[/quote]

Anyone have any more detail on replacing fluoro tubes - new fittings vs LED replacement tubes, and experiences with conventional or electronically ballasted fittings? As much thinking from life expectancy and disposal costs of fluoro tubes as much as energy saving.

We have noticed that changing wholesaler to NVS from Henry Schein, NVS send all goods in reusable tote boxes, rather than half of H.S. goods that came in single use cardboard boxes.

Has anyone done any recent work on where the main environmental footprint of the practice falls - years ago we did and it was by a long way clients driving their pets in... We do have cycle parking for clients (we are in a cycling town however), and staff too.

RE: Making practices greener?

Lindsey Edwards — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 20:55:17 GMT

I am trying to reduce, reuse and recycle as much as possible.

- Minimal amount of single use consumables - reusable drapes etc {looking for economical all paper autoclave pouches if anyone has suggestions?}.

- Paper bags/envelopes for dispensing foil wrapped tablets; original bottles kept for dispensing of same drugs / smallest clip bags used for loose tablets; owners encouraged to bring back for refill with new label reapplied over previous one for repeat meds

- All rigid plastic (syringe caps etc), paper sides of syringe/needle packaging, boxes etc are recycled.

- Cat litter sawdust based and composted with other organic wastes/wormery used for dog faeces unless from infectious/isolation patients (compost kept for >18months, never for food crops!); flower beds planted with spring/summer/autumn native plants for bees/pollinators. Having a large garden area helps with grass cuttings etc to heat compost!

- All post-op patients wrapped in foil 'space blankets' if cold rather than heating blankets/huggers

- Installed all LED lighting last year - has reduced electricity costs for comparable months despite increase in turnover (alongside double glazing and insulation)

- Majority of heating is infrared panels with individual switches and room thermostats so only what is required is heated per procedure/day- heats within 5-10mins.

- Will look at solar thermal heating for water in 2019-20

SNAGS - any ideas:

- eco-friendly disinfectants for routine surgical kennels etc (oxygen/peroxide based) which are stable in solution but degrade and can be composted without killing heap first?

- eco friendly skin prep - was there a citrus based antiseptic developed a few years ago to be kinder than chlorhexxidine? Is povidone iodine better or worse than chlorhex - I find my 'waste' bin tends to include large amounts of wet cotton wool and prep hair which is sodden with disinfectant, alongside currently unrecyclable plastic films from syringes etc!

- plastic in consumable packaging/autoclave pouches

- gloves

RE: Making practices greener?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 18:03:19 GMT

[quote user="Richard Carter"]re the double glazing - actually think way overdue a review - you can have efficient housing using modern insulation methods which is where we all should be heading (joined up thinking) or you can have museum pieces - however it is not suitable IMO to designate a whole residential area to 'museum' status for pretty routine victorian terraces (i.e - of no specific historical value) when there are as you say very efficient modern products with similar appearance but you not allowed to use them. The secondary glazing, the insistence on 'period' thin glass, the wooden frames rotting, leaking heat etc not fit for a world where energy conservation and avoiding global warming the highest agenda.[/quote]

I disagree in many ways. The choice is not between "efficient modern housing" and "museum pieces". Conservation does not mean creating a museum. And "pretty routine Victorian terraces" are of historical value, as well as of considerable aesthetic value. There are excellent ways of installing secondary glazing which do not affect external appearance and are permissible – local authorities employ conservation officers to advise on such things, or you can get advice from SPAB or from other sources. Of course doing the job properly costs a little more than bunging in plastic windows (which do not really resemble the original at all). Older buildings often are, or can be made, far more "energy-efficient" than poorly-informed modern surveyors believe, but you have to understand how the building works.

As for rotting timber frames: it doesn't happen if a) the frames are maintained properly, and b) proper attention is paid to sources of damp, such as poorly maintained guttering, roofing and dripstones.

[quote user="Richard Carter"]not fit for a world where energy conservation and avoiding global warming the highest agenda.[/quote]

I disagree. What's the point of saving the world if you can only do it by destroying what's interesting and pleasant?

[quote user="Richard Carter"]Our municipal collections do not include the practice - we have to have separate collections through a private company[/quote]

Gwynedd council may not be too bright about buildings conservation, but they seem to be well in advance of other authorities in the matter of waste, to judge by some of the posts on this thread. We have a weekly collection of "commercial waste": one bin for "mixed recyclable" with very clear instructions as to what can go in and what can't; and another bin (collected a different day) for everything else. The guys who do these collections are efficient and polite and helpful and clean and don't leave the bins scattered over the pavement, quite the opposite in every respect to those who do the domestic collection (which is only every three weeks!).

RE: Making practices greener?

Niall Taylor — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 15:15:36 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Why does everyone need to keep slurping water like a baby on a titty bottle anyway?[/quote]

You and your radical ideas - next you'll be saying there's no need for people to wander around clutching cups of coffee all the time and waving them at one another.

Niall

RE: Making practices greener?

Marie Kubiak — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 13:19:08 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[/quote]

Do you have a source for this as it is regularly raised as a reason not to recycle but so far I can find nothing more than one story shared across media that found poorly sorted/contaminated plastics sent abroad may not be recycled which is hardly shocking!

Some plastic types used to be more cost effective to ship abroad for recycling and then they were hard to trace with some suspected to end up in landfill. However, that route has been shut down as developing countries are banning imports of waste from other countries and the onus is now on the UK to meet the targets independently and there will need to be improvements made to facilities in areas that are behind the times. Leaving the EU unfortunately means the disincentives of fines disappear. Still, with limited space for landfill within UK the waste has to go somewhere and recycling is the best option financially, politically and environmentally so I suspect the government will be keen to improve things further.

RE: Making practices greener?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 09:38:23 GMT

The theory of recycling is good but given reports that a large percentage of potentially recyclable material going to incineration or landfill because there just isn't the industry capacity to recycle it all, makes me wonder why I bother. If we start putting drip bags etc into publicly collected waste, recyclable or not, I can just see the scandal if a binny picks upon it and reports it: 'Vet accused of disposing of clinical waste in public recycling'!

RE: Making practices greener?

Thomas Johnson — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 09:36:44 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]We struggle more with recycling waste from the staff room/ kitchen! We used to separate everything and then I took it up to the local tip, only to have them tell me to put it all in general waste, as they don't have a section for plastics or cardboard, only glass! I've tried to call the council about getting a recycling bin at the practice, but they don't get back to me, [/quote]

As you're a business the council aren't going to collect your recycling, but the company that collects your general waste should be able to provide you with a suitable bin for recycling and collect it from you, probably for a charge, but if you need your general waste collected less frequently due to more recycling it may balance out.

RE: Making practices greener?

Jill Butterworth — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 09:27:24 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Provide the water fountains with paper cups. [/quote]

We don't even need paper cups. Everyone was happy with the no touch water fountain years ago.

RE: Making practices greener?

Richard Carter — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 09:18:05 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]Can't understand why there isn't a place at the municipal tip for recycling.[/quote]just don't arrive with your work vehicle - will be charged for business waste

Our municipal collections do not include the practice - we have to have separate collections through a private company

re the double glazing - actually think way overdue a review - you can have efficient housing using modern insulation methods which is where we all should be heading (joined up thinking) or you can have museum pieces - however it is not suitable IMO to designate a whole residential area to 'museum' status for pretty routine victorian terraces (i.e - of no specific historical value) when there are as you say very efficient modern products with similar appearance but you not allowed to use them. The secondary glazing, the insistence on 'period' thin glass, the wooden frames rotting, leaking heat etc not fit for a world where energy conservation and avoiding global warming the highest agenda.

RE: Making practices greener?

Julie Innes — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 08:56:21 GMT

We struggle more with recycling waste from the staff room/ kitchen! We used to separate everything and then I took it up to the local tip, only to have them tell me to put it all in general waste, as they don't have a section for plastics or cardboard, only glass! I've tried to call the council about getting a recycling bin at the practice, but they don't get back to me, and I'm not sure we have anywhere to put a bin anyway! Only other option would be to take it all home to my own bin, but it just isn't feasible- as a family of five we already fill all our recycling bins without adding recycling from 14 staff members. Can't understand why there isn't a place at the municipal tip for recycling.

RE: Making practices greener?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 03 Jan 2019 19:03:49 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

[quote user="Liz Barton"]a reusable bottle in the delegate bags at LVS[/quote]

To be honest Liz, these were practically useless. Everyone who wants to use one already has one, I gave mine back. They will be used once/twice/during the event? How many disposable plastic cups could you make with the amount of plastic in these? It's fiddling round the edges, far better as we did, to say, bring your own or go thirsty

Neil

[/quote]

Agreed. Why does everyone need to keep slurping water like a baby on a titty bottle anyway?

Provide the water fountains with paper cups. Job done.

[quote user="Richard Carter"] People trying to sneak double glazing in the conservation areas have had to rip out[/quote]

Sorry, I'm with your local authority on that one. There are ways of installing secondary double glazing without vandalising the appearance of the house.

RE: Making practices greener?

Richard Carter — Thu, 03 Jan 2019 18:23:13 GMT

re solar heating - we have the local council from h... People trying to sneak double glazing in the conservation areas have had to rip out so the chance of getting anything that could be construed an eyesore (joined up thinking anyone?) although I probably could qualify for an EU grant for developing industry in the county by putting in a biomass boiler ..... (?)

Think I could do my own incineration then?

think we also need a scientific debate on what exactly is 'clinical' - dried blood is not in any way dangerous to anyone unless they put it in their mouth and it happened to be full of clostridia. More dangerous dirt is produced by the local park - broken bottles, cans, plastic bags, drug paraphernalia, rotting food, dog faeces...

RE: Making practices greener?

Joyce Whitehead — Thu, 03 Jan 2019 18:18:33 GMT

I've just this afternoon been investigating recyclable cardboard cartons for dispensing. We use a lot of plastic minigrip bags for this, and I hate the idea of unnecessary plastic. I've changed a lot of stuff in my household life, soap instead of shampoo/shower gel, beeswax wraps in place of cling film etc, but I think we could do more at work. We already use paper bags for bigger orders in place of plastic. Good that there is some industry wide thinking on this.

RE: Making practices greener?

Neil Wheadon — Thu, 03 Jan 2019 18:11:53 GMT

[quote user="Liz Barton"]It was eye-opening having a stand; the amount of packaging waste alone was mind-boggling![/quote]

It was noticeable at LVS at the reduction of 'landfill' available at each stall and I applaud that. I had a chat with a few exhibitors about pens etc and they said there was an industry wide move to reduce this throw away material fest.

Does anyone remember Ed Allen at the RVC. He had one framed picture in his office. It was a biro and beneath it said 'the biro that ran out'

Neil

RE: Making practices greener?

Liz Barton — Thu, 03 Jan 2019 18:06:43 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]How many disposable plastic cups could you make with the amount of plastic in these? [/quote]

I did wonder this too, but haven't had a chance to look into it. I'm not saying it's the answer, but it's starting the debate - as here - and raising awareness of the issue.

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]It's fiddling round the edges[/quote]

Totally agree with this Neil - there was so much more waste was going on than just plastic bottles. It was eye-opening having a stand; the amount of packaging waste alone was mind-boggling! It'll be interesting to see what congresses look like in a few years? The webinar-congresses with virtual exhibitions might be the way forwards, although less sociable!

RE: Making practices greener?

Neil Wheadon — Thu, 03 Jan 2019 17:42:03 GMT

[quote user="Liz Barton"]a reusable bottle in the delegate bags at LVS[/quote]

Neil

RE: Making practices greener?

Neil Wheadon — Thu, 03 Jan 2019 17:36:35 GMT

Where do you start on this?

We have hot water solar heaters on our house. They work so well, we get water up to 65 degrees regularly during the summer. They cost £3500 to install and we practically turn the gas of in the summer.

Practices use lots of hot water and here's the key. It's daytime working (in most cases) therefore on a hot summers day it's replenished

It seems fashionable to hammer the Chinese and Asian Countries to be plastic throwing/coal fired monsters, but you see these everywhere. I've yet to see one in the UK

RE: Making practices greener?

Liz Barton — Thu, 03 Jan 2019 17:34:22 GMT

Jane Davidson, the RVN blogger, has co-founded learning without landfill to reduce waste at CPD events. We've signed the pledge as WellVet, but that's also why there were more water fountains and a reusable bottle in the delegate bags at LVS, and no single use plastic bottles. Might be worth approaching her to see if she has any tips for how this can be advanced into practice life. [quote user="Niall Connell"]Some discussion has started on the topic.[/quote] I'm sure RCVS are already talking to her Niall?