Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 09:29:51 GMT

[quote user="villagevet"]Interesting but keep in mind risk of false negatives - particularly young pups seem to be snap negative despite infection (deteriorate quicker than they shed). Was involved in investigating an outbreak last year in young pups that had received initial vaccines at 5 weeks, booster at 8 and developed V+/dehydration/weakness within 2-3days[/quote]

Yes, there are some that we are convinced are parvo but are snap negative - we will often isolate them still, treat them as parvo and snap test 3-4 days later to see if any change. It's happened once or twice in the six years I've worked at my practice.

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Beats — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 22:58:25 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]There was a rumour circulating a few years ago about tamiflu being very useful for these, but never saw anything published.[/quote]

It was about the same time as the rumour circulating about tamiflu being very useful for "swine flu".

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

David Mills — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 22:54:03 GMT

There was a rumour circulating a few years ago about tamiflu being very useful for these, but never saw anything published.

Have treated 10s. There seems little rhyme or reason to recovery. Even the ones bright at admission can crash, those that you think are going terminal can rally. I think feeding is immensely important, provided they can keep it down.

There was a recent paper on faecal transplantation improving survival, but it wasn't a great one as the transplant group was significantly older.

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Beats — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 22:48:33 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]What was your treatment protocol? Were you using anti-virals?[/quote]

No antivirals.

iv hartmanns, parenteral amoxicillin maropitant (+metoclopramide CRI +/-ranitidine if continue to vomit), little a/d syringed orally every 1-2 hours during day; estimate hospitalisation for a week and don't take off drip until thoroughly recovered; watch for sepsis and give marbofloxacin (naughty, I know) if suspect.

Very happy to hear improvements. I've always assumed antivirals to be cost-prohibitive, or of questionable benefit, or potentially both dependent on the choice - would be very happy to hear that this is no longer the case.

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Robin Grimmer — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 22:40:45 GMT

[quote user="Beats"]

[quote user="Liz Barton"]

[quote user="Beats"]2018 was good for parvo survival here compared to recent years :-)[/quote]

Any idea why? Did you change management of the cases? Is there a shift in the population you're seeing? Or possibly virulence of strain??

[/quote]

In spite of only modest case numbers: prior to this year I had been thinking that the local strains were more virulent than previously. [genuinely]

2018 could have led me to question that supposition had I not realised that the improvement in survival this year is simply due to the introduction of 5G transmitters in the area, thus negating the more virulent strain effect I had previously noted.

[/quote]

What was your treatment protocol? Were you using anti-virals?

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Beats — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 22:37:10 GMT

[quote user="Liz Barton"]

[quote user="Beats"]2018 was good for parvo survival here compared to recent years :-)[/quote]

Any idea why? Did you change management of the cases? Is there a shift in the population you're seeing? Or possibly virulence of strain??

[/quote]

In spite of only modest case numbers: prior to this year I had been thinking that the local strains were more virulent than previously. [genuinely]

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Liz Barton — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 22:19:10 GMT

[quote user="Beats"]2018 was good for parvo survival here compared to recent years :-)[/quote]

Any idea why? Did you change management of the cases? Is there a shift in the population you're seeing? Or possibly virulence of strain??

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Lindsey Edwards — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 19:59:00 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]Our practice policy is that any unvaccinated dog/puppy and puppies that haven't had their first booster yet with GI signs get snap tested before anything else is done. Mainly due to the fact animals are sent from branches to our main hospital and the infection risk. We've had a couple of cases slip past us when they haven't been tested and they weren't isolated.[/quote]

Interesting but keep in mind risk of false negatives - particularly young pups seem to be snap negative despite infection (deteriorate quicker than they shed). Was involved in investigating an outbreak last year in young pups that had received initial vaccines at 5 weeks, booster at 8 and developed V+/dehydration/weakness within 2-3days - breeder convinced vaccine related. Submitted pups for post mortem - tested negative on SNAP and parvo only diagnosed on histo. Vaccinated and SNAP negative...possibly due to lack of faecal production/bowel perfusion??

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Beats — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 19:22:46 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]Did it survive?[/quote]

Yes. Full recovery. 2018 was good for parvo survival here compared to recent years :-)

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Niall Taylor — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 15:22:03 GMT

It's my obsession with the anti-vaccination debate driving this of course but that would be a superb bit of research to do, not too difficult perhaps, and I bet any of the vet journals would snap it up as a short communication.

Niall

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 15:15:42 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]Brilliant! You must have some really interesting data, can you give us an idea of the incidence of parvo in unvaccinated cases?[/quote]

I've never thought of it like that. I can have a look through, but off the top of my head positive results are fairly rare. We may get less than 10 cases a year.

There is a way of getting the information easily from Voyager I'm sure, but I don't know it. There's a possibility of gathering data from all IVC practices to make it a UK-wide retrospective study, could break it down further into geographical areas.

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Niall Taylor — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 14:58:49 GMT

Brilliant! You must have some really interesting data, can you give us an idea of the incidence of parvo in unvaccinated cases?

Niall

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 10:43:18 GMT

[quote user="Beats"]

Parvo.

[/quote]

How Rubbish for you and the pup. Did it survive?

Our practice policy is that any unvaccinated dog/puppy and puppies that haven't had their first booster yet with GI signs get snap tested before anything else is done. Mainly due to the fact animals are sent from branches to our main hospital and the infection risk. We've had a couple of cases slip past us when they haven't been tested and they weren't isolated.

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Beats — Tue, 01 Jan 2019 19:05:20 GMT

Parvo.

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Silvia Maldonado — Fri, 28 Dec 2018 23:02:34 GMT

[quote user="Beats"]

V+ twice yesterday, refusing food and treats since.

On first xray (left lateral), I wasn't sure what 2 x circular soft-tissue opacity areas surrounded by gas opacity were and wondered re pyloric obstruction (I've missed the odd one before...). Not convinced, so woke pup up and will see how goes. I'll try to doctor a picture to show the bit I wasn't sure what was.

[/quote]

Do you know the outcome, Beats?

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Julie Innes — Fri, 28 Dec 2018 08:33:23 GMT

Interesting- what was the outcome??

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Neil Wheadon — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 22:11:23 GMT

Good point Claire

It has a coiled spring look and according to https://europepmc.org/backend/ptpmcrender.fcgi?accid=PMC1481402&blobtype=pdf

Intussusception in dogs and cats: A review of 36 cases

The majority of the intussusceptions involved the enterocolic junction.

and the radiograph suggests that

Neil

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 18:05:39 GMT

Just been pondering this but could an intussusception look like this ?

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Anthony Todd — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 12:41:08 GMT

[quote user="Richard Carter"]then I would prob just go to ex-lap on fluids - have all your answers in 15 - 20 minutes[/quote]

Plus 1, and all your histo and your radiolucent FBs and have a total look round and miss nothing............ and then do the next consult happy that you've definitely missed nothing!

Too easy, and so reassuring nor will you get a desperate call on New years eve!

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Richard Carter — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:50:27 GMT

also good idea to rx colic with buprenorphine/ similar, wait 1 hour and re-xray - often find pain induced ileus and by time hour passed, you get completely different xrays

we still use barium quite a lot unless patient looking toxic/ septicaemic - then I would prob just go to ex-lap on fluids - have all your answers in 15 - 20 minutes

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Thomas Johnson — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:17:12 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"] Could you feel anything when you took the X-Rays? That's by far the best way to diagnose a FB or mass. I vividly remember a case last year where the X-Rays were done and it was luck that I passed through and asked have you felt the abdomen, 2 foreign bodies later [/quote]

I've had a couple of occasions where it hasn't been possible to palpate a GI foreign body until the dog was sedated. I wonder if digital xray makes vets less likely to palpate the abdomen? In the days of film xray even if it didn't immediately cross your mind to palpate the sedated dog's abdomen you had to find something to do while you waited the few minutes for the film to re-appear from the processor!

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 26 Dec 2018 22:06:46 GMT

I would tend to agree that large intestinal and so keep an eye on it

Thinking of the X-Rays, I always go back to basics. You see things because there is a contrast between 2 densities, that's why a liver and spleen coalesce sometimes. In this case I feel the gas filled colon has provided contrast within which you are seeing solid small intestine. I don't feel they are Lymph nodes as 2 that size wouldn't be normal when all the others aren't that size.

Could you feel anything when you took the X-Rays? That's by far the best way to diagnose a FB or mass. I vividly remember a case last year where the X-Rays were done and it was luck that I passed through and asked have you felt the abdomen, 2 foreign bodies later (yes TWO) and their's a story as I showed the new grad how to remove the first and jokingly said 'don't forget to check the rest as there may be another one', thinking, there will never be two surely.

Let us know what happens

Neil

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Wed, 26 Dec 2018 16:29:50 GMT

Lymph nodes ?

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Anthony Todd — Wed, 26 Dec 2018 15:32:52 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]some computer glitch[/quote]

Me too, on an ancient notepad/?

RE: Has this puppy eaten something? (Xrays)

Beats — Mon, 24 Dec 2018 13:03:05 GMT

V+ twice yesterday, refusing food and treats since.