Stress glucose or diabetes?

RE: Stress glucose or diabetes?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 11:39:48 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]Life is full of surprises! [/quote]

Yes, we had a cat that loved to eat lemon slices.

Mind you they were soaked in gin and tonic.....

RE: Stress glucose or diabetes?

Silvia Maldonado — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 00:14:06 GMT

We still use pilchards (in tomato sauce) for inappetence cats. Sometimes it works , sometimes it doesn't

RE: Stress glucose or diabetes?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 00:03:07 GMT

Tomato, that's an old one. 47 years ago we were recommending herrings in tomato sauce to stimulate the appetite.

RE: Stress glucose or diabetes?

Julian Earl — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 23:54:34 GMT

Thanks for that clarification Anthony. I know understand why I was wrong. But I am still surprised at how much cats seem to like licking up ketchup or baked beans residue! Life is full of surprises!

RE: Stress glucose or diabetes?

Nicola Cole — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 22:39:03 GMT

[quote user="Silvia Maldonado"]

BITD?

[/quote]

’Back in the day’

RE: Stress glucose or diabetes?

Anthony Todd — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 22:26:14 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]all in order to acidify the urine[/quote]

That was fine, BITD, when we just were dealing with high Mg++ food in cats with kidneys that couldn't deal with it.

All we had to do was dissolve the resulting struvite crystals or aggregations and feed low Mg++ food.

Now, and since dried cereal based food, you have to deal with oxalate which precipitates in acid urine [I believe] and [BTW] diabetes, almost unheard of BITD with cats on their natural diet of largely fat and protein.

Added to this is the modern trend to base all feline nutrition research around dried food thus blaming all FUS on "stress".

Really it's simple chemistry and/or the physics of chemical solubility.

RE: Stress glucose or diabetes?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 17:15:27 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]

However, I read in the Vet Times a couple of years ago that acidification of urine is no longer advised. So the choice is yours. I see the need for a tomato-trial!

I was surprised when I discovered how much cats appear to enjoy the taste, being very keen to lick clean any plates that had been used for beans and so on. Vegetarian cats? Who'd have thunk it?

[/quote]I doubt the amount of tomato a cat could eat as part of a balanced diet would have any significant effect in acidifying the urine. You're right that the advice is not to do this anyway now as you could precipitate oxalate calculi which are worse than struvite. The approach now like with Royal Canin S/O is to reduce the material components of the calculi to prevent them from forming.

On a lighter note I've many had cats over the years with very bizarre tastes: one had a penchant for super hot curry sauce and would be hypersalivating with tears streaming but he kept coming back. Latest cat, now around 6-7 months, will eat literally anything that is edible, we can't even chuck stale bread out for the birds.

RE: Stress glucose or diabetes?

Miriam Lodewyks — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 16:23:29 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]Vegetarian cats? Who'd have thunk it? [/quote]

Mine has a penchant for coconut and popcorn... go figure!

RE: Stress glucose or diabetes?

Julian Earl — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 10:16:03 GMT

"What is your diet advice for blocked cat?"

For years I used to recommend tomato juice: the bottled stuff, or puree, or the juice from baked beans etc all in order to acidify the urine. the cats seem to love the flavour, and it is readily available in most homes. It "should" reduce the proliferation of bacteria . However, I read in the Vet Times a couple of years ago that acidification of urine is no longer advised. So the choice is yours. I see the need for a tomato-trial!

I was surprised when I discovered how much cats appear to enjoy the taste, being very keen to lick clean any plates that had been used for beans and so on. Vegetarian cats? Who'd have thunk it?

RE: Stress glucose or diabetes?

Silvia Maldonado — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 18:33:37 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

I can reassure you though, in that, all the blocked bladders I unblocked over many years BITD did very well and none died after urgent but gentle unblocking and nothing else.

[/quote]

What is your diet advice for blocked cats?

[/quote]

BITD?

For now the cat is on a hunger strike, but at least he didn't hate me too much this morning. We'll see on what mood he is tonight.

The cat will go back to his practice once he's discharged. I'm more worried about not stressing him more than necessary than starting on a diet urgently. I normally leave diet decision to their own vets.

RE: Stress glucose or diabetes?

Anthony Todd — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 17:09:54 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]What is your diet advice for blocked cats?[/quote]

Struvite: low Mg [easy with wet/traditional, historically and biologically usual food, near impossible with dried [ie now "normal"....] food

Oxalate: low oxalate but near impossible with dried [ie normal] food as above.

I think if I had a cat with FUS, or the current nmenomic, I'd try and go for

traditional wet cat food, ie LOW cereal, high protein.low Mg and oxalate,

and, vitally, but scientifically nonsensical, reduce stress.................

RE: Stress glucose or diabetes?

Robin Grimmer — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 16:39:01 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Silvia Maldonado"]What are your thoughts?[/quote]

Well diet advice and compliance for a start....

I would expect loads of blood parameters particularly K+ to go haywire with a prolonged blocked bladder.

I can reassure you though, in that, all the blocked bladders I unblocked over many years BITD did very well and none died after urgent but gentle unblocking and nothing else.

Hold your breath and mother nature will correct the blood values without your intervention.

Critical thing is a gentle, atraumatic, catherisation [without an indweller!!] and adamant diet advice!!

[/quote]

What is your diet advice for blocked cats?

RE: Stress glucose or diabetes?

Anthony Todd — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 16:21:56 GMT

[quote user="Silvia Maldonado"]What are your thoughts?[/quote]

Well diet advice and compliance for a start....

I would expect loads of blood parameters particularly K+ to go haywire with a prolonged blocked bladder.

I can reassure you though, in that, all the blocked bladders I unblocked over many years BITD did very well and none died after urgent but gentle unblocking and nothing else.

Hold your breath and mother nature will correct the blood values without your intervention.

Critical thing is a gentle, atraumatic, catherisation [without an indweller!!] and adamant diet advice!!

RE: Stress glucose or diabetes?

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 14:20:47 GMT

You have answered your own question Silvia but I would not have worried about a BG that high at that stage, it was probably accumulating because it wasn't being excreted and would have done what you did - retested later. If it was persistent then I would have sent a sample for fructosamine. The trace of glucose in the urine may have been due to bacterial action on the retained urine.

RE: Stress glucose or diabetes?

Silvia Maldonado — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 08:25:32 GMT

It seems such hyperglycemia is due to stress. BG repeated 5h later and it was 5.3mmol/l. I'll just keep an eye on him for now :)