51/2 mth male Chihuahua - apparently prospect of being best show dog in Europe !?! do I care?

RE: 51/2 mth male Chihuahua - apparently prospect of being best show dog in Europe !?! do I care?

david kemp — Mon, 22 Oct 2018 20:37:07 GMT

Whippet racing brigade have it sorted. you cannot race a whippet unless castrated or both testicles palpable. Stops the genetic fault being passed on by speedy cryptorchids-that’s the story I tell when asked. Used chorulon once many years ago. More effective for bank balance than the dog-pity I was only assistant at time.

RE: 51/2 mth male Chihuahua - apparently prospect of being best show dog in Europe !?! do I care?

Virginia Campbell — Sat, 20 Oct 2018 19:29:09 GMT

I would quite enjoy saying "genetic defect" and "inherited abnormality" as often as possible during the conversation and promise myself to a glass of wine with dinner if the breeder blamed "the way he was lying in the womb".

RE: 51/2 mth male Chihuahua - apparently prospect of being best show dog in Europe !?! do I care?

Clive Ansell — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 20:08:41 GMT

+1 for a direct refusal, on the grounds that it would be an unethical procedure, that would involve a degree of trauma and pain(?) and have no direct benefit for the animal in terms of its welfare.

I know it is very slim, but what are the chances of the testicle still descending? maybe wait and see a little while?

If the testicle were to be surgically descended and tacked in pace; what are the chances this would be successful? and could the testicle be malformed in any way? again, raising the question is it an ethical procedure? and would further surgery or castration be required at a later date? Somebody I went to school with had bilaterally retained testicles, there were successfully corrected surgically in the 1960's, but much (10 -15 years) later it was discovered he was infertile and did not produce testosterone, as he is affected with Klinefelter syndrome.

An ex boss used to treat these with hormone therapies, I cannot recall a single one that worked (n= 10's , not 100's)

RE: 51/2 mth male Chihuahua - apparently prospect of being best show dog in Europe !?! do I care?

Dinu Catilina — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 18:38:58 GMT

It's bullshit.

Under KC rules a dog with one descended testicle can be bred from but doing surgery on it and not declaring it is against the rules. In Europe dogs with one testicles can not be used at stud, FCI will ask for a certificate for any UK stud dog regarding the presence of two testicles unless the dog is a champion (which will never be with only one testicle).

From a show perspective, it's basically fraud.

I've never seen one where hormonal treatment worked.

RE: 51/2 mth male Chihuahua - apparently prospect of being best show dog in Europe !?! do I care?

Julie Innes — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 14:51:16 GMT

Another one for refusing! Even the request would make me think she was not my kind of client, so would be happy to see her pootle off elsewhere. I wouldn't even know how to do it, if I'm honest! (the op, not the refusal!)

RE: 51/2 mth male Chihuahua - apparently prospect of being best show dog in Europe !?! do I care?

Rob Davis — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 14:36:46 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Mellor"]she wants me to either surgically bring the testicle down- common op in Europe she says. has anyone performed this?[/quote]

Anybody in mainland Europe care to comment? I've never heard of it being done and agree with the general refusal.

RE: 51/2 mth male Chihuahua - apparently prospect of being best show dog in Europe !?! do I care?

Bob Russell — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 14:15:08 GMT

I was not particularly suggesting any surgical technique as it is not something I would consider appropriate.

Contacting the RCVS would be with the purpose of confirming it is not an ethical procedure. I doubt the Kennel Club would accept it but their ethical compass tends to fluctuate on occasions.

It is not an uncommon procedure in humans apparently but I cannot see any place for this surgery in animals as it is likely to promote a heritable condition.

RE: 51/2 mth male Chihuahua - apparently prospect of being best show dog in Europe !?! do I care?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 14:03:58 GMT

The simple answer is refuse. Typical breeder whether you're fond of of her not (presumably this doesn't mean fond as in and ahem...a relationship which would complicate matters somewhat), if she doesn't like the correct advice and she 'yoyos' off somewhere else then good riddance.

RE: 51/2 mth male Chihuahua - apparently prospect of being best show dog in Europe !?! do I care?

Andrew Mellor — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 12:43:58 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Not heard of anyone performing this procedure legitimately!

If in doubt talk to the RCVS.

[/quote]

perhaps you thought I was asking for ideas how to perform it- I absolutely was not and would not approach the RCVS because I feel it is unethical - do you think I could throw the new animal welfare act at them saying animal should not be bred from if it has a genetic or phenotypic problem that could cause problems in next generation. therefore possibly illegal to breed from it!

I am not very fond of this client by the way!! but she is like a yoyo!!

RE: 51/2 mth male Chihuahua - apparently prospect of being best show dog in Europe !?! do I care?

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 12:28:31 GMT

As the kids from Grange Hill said - just say no!

RE: 51/2 mth male Chihuahua - apparently prospect of being best show dog in Europe !?! do I care?

Bob Russell — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 12:24:32 GMT

I doubt any medication will bring down a testicle that was not going to come down anyway.

Surgical intervention to move the testicle to its correct place is fraught with ethical issues.

My answer would be a 'sympathetic' No!

Not heard of anyone performing this procedure legitimately!

If in doubt talk to the RCVS.

RE: 51/2 mth male Chihuahua - apparently prospect of being best show dog in Europe !?! do I care?

Richard Carter — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 09:49:10 GMT

I believe hormonal treatment is used in humans but success is variable. If this is a breeder intending to breed (as you suggest), the answer from my point would be no - duff dog and altering natural conformation of dog would need reporting to KC if done

Don't be surprised though when you next see him for his boosters that the other one has miraculously descended