Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Lucy Fleming — Thu, 20 Sep 2018 08:22:03 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]I did a CPD lecture last year where the cat specialist vet recommended the chicken(?) and pumpkin applaws. I have one cat with chronic diarrhoea that didn't like it, but the owner trialled giving some pumpkin paste in its food, which he swears works[/quote]

Some of my american colleagues swear by tinned pumpkin to help with both constipation and diarrhoea. I imagine it is more readily available there (or perhaps they all just stock up at thanksgiving!)

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:37:06 GMT

[quote user="Liz Barton"]I've 'fixed' a few cases of vomiting in both dogs and cats[/quote]

Mmm, my "allergic" stomach cat full of dried food may well have just been a food bolter......

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Liz Barton — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:16:15 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]It could be the way they bolt their food,[/quote]

I've 'fixed' a few cases of vomiting in both dogs and cats by telling the owners to put a large stone in the bowl so the cat/dog has to eat around it and therefore slower (I know you can buy slow feeders etc., but a stone is a cheaper test!).

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:13:27 GMT

Sorry, didn't realise that.....point taken.

BTW Go-cat Indoor Food chicken & veg 10% fat, and Whiskas 7+ pouches fat 2% [???]

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Sarah Keir — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 20:03:13 GMT

Science Plan™ Feline Adult Optimal Care™ with Lamb

	As Fed	Dry Matter	per 100 kcal ME
Beta-carotene	1.5 mg/kg	1.59 mg/kg	0.04 mg
Calcium	0.82 %	0.87 %	200.49 mg
Carbohydrate (NFE)	36.3 %	38.41 %	8.88 g
Fat	20 %	21.16 %	4.89 g
Fibre (crude)	0.9 %	0.95 %	220.05 mg
Magnesium	0.06 %

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Sarah Keir — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 20:02:07 GMT

Dried cat foods are not zero fat - have you seen how greasy the kibbles are and felt in on your hands? Just looked up Hills adult cat optimal health fat = 21.6%

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 19:23:22 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]I'm sorry Anthony I'm really not sure what your point is here? Are you saying that milk is the most common cause of dietary upset in cats? [/quote]

I'm saying it used to be, if fed. the most obvious culprit [siamese??] but now as it's never fed, or not as much, combined with a totally no fat [dried food diet] it may be even more significant, as it's mentioned as a no-no in nearly all the googled sites but all without evidence.

Similarly, whereas BITD chicken and fish were very well tolerated, but not often fed because of high fat tinned cat food, they were excellent one source diets for diet trials.

Cat nutrition is now totally based on dried, abnormal, high carbohydrate ,zero fat diets and any advice mainly funded by the dried food manufacturers, is based on that premise.

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Julie Innes — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 18:44:15 GMT

I did a CPD lecture last year where the cat specialist vet recommended the chicken(?) and pumpkin applaws. I have one cat with chronic diarrhoea that didn't like it, but the owner trialled giving some pumpkin paste in its food, which he swears works

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Lucy Fleming — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 18:28:39 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]You're right, to be fair[/quote]

Yes but when you google the matter you get pages of people saying "it's bad" mentioning lactose, and sounding all scientific, but little in the way of evidence or logic. some even say "occasionally" which as we all know is the easiest way to upset anyone's gut....

My guess is that giving cats on total dried food milk would be a sure recipe for D&V, particukly full cream!

And if the neighbour is giveng it to the cat, not so easy to work out!

[/quote]

I'm sorry Anthony I'm really not sure what your point is here? Are you saying that milk is the most common cause of dietary upset in cats? I'm not debating that it certainly can be a cause. I merely mentioned that (possibly due to the change in make up of pet foods over the last few years with cheap chicken protein) chicken or fish are not necessarily good choices for single protein diets any more.

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 17:57:18 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]You're right, to be fair[/quote]

My guess is that giving cats on total dried food milk would be a sure recipe for D&V, particukly full cream!

And if the neighbour is giveng it to the cat, not so easy to work out!

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Joyce Whitehead — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 17:40:33 GMT

Antepsin (sucralfate) is available as a special from BOVA in a chicken flavoured paste. I’ve found it useful in cats with chronic or recurrent pancreatitis.

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 17:18:37 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Although I did see a cat that had even had a stomach biopsy, after all possible tests, when it vomited dried food and only dried food.[/quote]This is one of life's great mysteries. But it could be the other way round: I've had cats that were fed moist food and improved when switched to dry and vice-versa. It could be the way they bolt their food, the quality of the new food or the coincidence that you have switched them to something that doesn't contain what they were intolerant to. So, before I embark on a dietary trial or further investigations I discuss feeding management, especially in multi-cat households or threshold feeders, as these may be what I call neurogenic vomiters.

I was taught that as many cats vomited as had diarrhoea due to a food intolerance but if they got better it may have been as much due to feeding management as change of food. Incidentally Antepsin which seemed to help these and has been greatly missed is now available again at reasonable cost according to the email I got today from Animed.

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Lucy Fleming — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 16:55:37 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Have you got a reference for that, because I would have thought milk would have been number one, by far.....[/quote]

It was from a web lecture by Marge Chandler, the nutritionist up in Glasgow, which ironically I was just watching yesterday! I don't know exactly which study she was quoting from. Interestingly dairy was in the top three for dogs but not for cats. Whether this reflects on true prevalence or the pervasiveness of the message that "milk is bad for cats" I'm not sure. [quote user="Anthony Todd"]I wouldn't be looking for any disease process, just a dietary intolerance first[/quote]You're right, to be fair, the difference between a true food allergy and a food intolerance is largely meaningless as far as the patient is concerned!

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 16:33:42 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"] Beef, chicken and fish are the three foods most often associated with a food allergy or intolerance in cats, so often not a very useful protein source for an elimination diet. [/quote]

Er. sorry I remember that reply now....

Have you got a reference for that, because I would have thought milk would have been number one, by far.....

Quote 2 It depends what you are expecting in terms of an underlying disease process,

I wouldn't be looking for any disease process, just a dietary intolerance first, as it was so common in the days before dried food.

PS This was in the days of tinned food;ie high fat, low carbs, little diabetes but much more diarrhoea......

Although I did see a cat that had even had a stomach biopsy, after all possible tests, when it vomited dried food and only dried food.

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Bob Russell — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:47:15 GMT

Could the withdrawal of some of these diets reflect a result of large manufacturers and wholesalers allowing internet suppliers to undercut prices to practices? Many can be bought and delivered more cheaply than practices can buy them at. Ultimately loyalty usually brings loyalty in my experience.

I have one patient, we tried the lot. Absolutely great on a raw diet. Sods bloo*y law!!

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Philippa Welsh — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 12:56:10 GMT

Yes, it's the wet diets I miss the most! and that was a good'un.

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 12:49:21 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Kent"]Unfortunately there seems to be a trend for some of the most useful diets being withdrawn which is starting to limit options![/quote]We're happy using the Royal Canin range and it seems to fit most cases. But as you have pointed out some have been withdrawn, most specifically the feline duck and tapioca moist diet which was useful for cats that didn't like/can't eat dry food.

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Andrew Kent — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 12:29:31 GMT

We have started using the Dechra Specific range of diets - the Allergy Management Plus is a hydrolysed salmon and comes in wet and dry formulations.

Unfortunately there seems to be a trend for some of the most useful diets being withdrawn which is starting to limit options!

Andy

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Lucy Fleming — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 12:15:18 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Still can't see what's wrong with "boiled chicken or fish only" usually very very palatable, cheap and readily available[/quote]

It depends what you are expecting in terms of an underlying disease process, and if you are looking for a novel protein diet. Beef, chicken and fish are the three foods most often associated with a food allergy or intolerance in cats, so often not a very useful protein source for an elimination diet.

RE: Dietary responsive diarrhoea in cats - where's Eukanuba FP gone?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 11:45:35 GMT

[quote user="Philippa Welsh"]diet trials for chronic diarrhoea in cats[/quote]

Still can't see what's wrong with "boiled chicken or fish only" usually very very palatable, cheap and readily available.

Also introduces the owner to the concept of "elimination" and "identification".

PS no milk, in any form, is a given as well as KEEP INDOORS!