Raw feeding in cats and Taurine

RE: Raw feeding in cats and Taurine

Andreas Ege — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 11:05:27 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"](...)damn sight easier that faffing around with raw. Seriously - why bother?[/quote]

The quick answer takes us into non-evidence based belief: I think it is more suitable.

Besides, recommending RC or whatever other commercial non-raw diet would not have answered the original posters question. ;)

The long answer:

I've had a cat with chronic diarrhoea that didn't respond to anything (no, I didn't take intestinal biopsies, and with the benefit of post mortem hindsight I'm glad - she had intestinal sarcoma and I probably would have killed her during the ex-lap). Starting her on raw did improve the situation, her quality of live and our nerves a LOT. After she died I kept the other on raw, she certainly prefers it over commercial and actually gets sick quite reliably on most normal commercial diets these days.

I only mentioned the age to show it can be done long-term without any complications, I wouldn't claim it's the food that made her that old.

Besides, I'm not too fussed about raw or cooked, but I'm fussed about the levels of carbs in the normal commercial diets. Cats simply have not evolved to deal with carb levels above 4-5% and it would take a real good, independent (!) study of sufficiently big sample size to convince me otherwise.

Cooking my food would only add more work. ;)

RE: Raw feeding in cats and Taurine

Martin Atkinson — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 10:29:41 GMT

[quote user="Andreas Ege"]I have my cat on a raw diet for about 10 years now and besides early stage 1 renal failure she looks younger than her 18 years. For most of this time I've supplemented taurine, [/quote]I feed my cats on Royal Canin and the last 4 lived to 20-21 and in none of that time did I have to supplement with anything and its a damn sight easier that faffing around with raw. Seriously - why bother?

RE: Raw feeding in cats and Taurine

Andreas Ege — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 03:09:37 GMT

[quote user="Charlotte Marshall"](...) will this diet provide enough taurine or should they supplement this as well?[/quote]

Difficult to say without the actual "recipe" and feeding method. ;)

Generally I would expect a raw diet with muscle meat and heart to be fine.

But...

1) some meats, e.g. rabbit, seem to be quite low in taurine,

2) taurine is highly water soluble, if the food is frozen and the juice is not fed or if it get's diluted too much with water for a more soupy diet (e.g. for a kidney diet) it might get lost (more an issue with cooking imo),

3) taurine gets degraded by bacteria, preparations with a high bacterial load can get too low.

There was one study feeding ground raw rabbit that had to be abandoned when cats in the raw group developed cardiomyopathy - almost a non-brainer, really, as they did grind the whole rabbit, guts and all, before freezing.

I have my cat on a raw diet for about 10 years now and besides early stage 1 renal failure she looks younger than her 18 years. For most of this time I've supplemented taurine, if only for the simple fact I'm not aware of major risks with over-supplementation and by the time I'm seeing clinical problems it's a tad bit late. Probably makes more sense than feeding a vit-mineral mix without a ration calculation - I find these mixes tend to add up rather unbalanced, that's why I rather add only what's needed, more or less.

You could blood test for taurine but last time I checked it was awfully expensive and taurine is cheap. ;)

RE: Raw feeding in cats and Taurine

Virginia Campbell — Sun, 12 Aug 2018 01:02:54 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]PS gross obesity and diabetes very rare, and "stress" as a cause of any disease never thought of either.[/quote]

Mind you, indoor only cats used to be unusual and a lot of even the indoor/outdoor ones now would barely walk the length of themselves as their territories are often tiny. Many cats never get the sunlight on their backs at all now. I know diet does more for their vit D levels than our pathetic northern European light but I can't help wondering if there are other benefits of sunlight for cats and whether the lack of it, along with the proinflammatory effect of all that spare lard everything over 1yo carries, is responsible of a lot of malaise.

RE: Raw feeding in cats and Taurine

Anthony Todd — Sat, 11 Aug 2018 15:10:27 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]And some liver (not too much, obviously). Or fresh fish.[/quote]

Just a screen-grab and my observations:

Red meat and poultry, particularly hearts and livers, provide adequate levels of taurine for your cat's needs. Eggs and dairy are also good sources. However,shellfish such as shrimp and clams provide even more taurine than other animal proteins, making them excellent foods to feed your cat.

Remember deficiencies never seemed to be a problem back in the day when cats were on raw meat, before they went on an equine diet.

RE: Raw feeding in cats and Taurine

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 11 Aug 2018 14:50:03 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]I believe they need to make sure there is heart muscle in the diet,[/quote]

And some liver (not too much, obviously). Or fresh fish.

RE: Raw feeding in cats and Taurine

Kate Richardson — Sat, 11 Aug 2018 13:26:20 GMT

I believe they need to make sure there is heart muscle in the diet, otherwise yes, supplement taurine. Risky making the diet themselves- not just taurine essential, arginine and others

RE: Raw feeding in cats and Taurine

Anthony Todd — Sat, 11 Aug 2018 13:01:41 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]I struggle to see what is wrong with a raw diet, especially in cats[/quote]

We're back to FUS again.....

Once upon a time all cats were fed solely on raw meat or fish. [6p from the butcher; fish as a treat]

Trouble was some cats couldn't cope with high Mg++ meats or fish, giving the original FUS.

Most cats were fine and FUS cats fine on a low Mg++ animal protein.

Then the blancmange hit the fan with Go CAT and astronomical Mg++ and oxalate on either side of pH7...........

PS gross obesity and diabetes very rare, and "stress" as a cause of any disease never thought of either.

RE: Raw feeding in cats and Taurine

Dinu Catilina — Sat, 11 Aug 2018 12:53:37 GMT

I thought taurine is found in meats and lack of it is from poor quality processed diets or vegetarian food.

I struggle to see what is wrong with a raw diet, especially in cats. Cats ear raw every time they they hunt something.