Drugs withdrawn - speechless

RE: Drugs withdrawn - speechless

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 28 Jul 2018 12:37:08 GMT

[quote user="F Brookes"]Also to quiz you further Micheal what dosing interval do you use for cattle/sheep with metacam?[/quote]

I will repeat it after 24 or 48 hours if I feel its necessary but 90% of the time use a single injection.

There is nothing published supporting the longer duration of action whispered about by the reps, I've asked for it and looked myself. It all seems to be based on half life studies.

RE: Drugs withdrawn - speechless

Bob Russell — Sat, 28 Jul 2018 10:58:55 GMT

Almost anything may cause cancer but this is supposed to be a science based decision.

If this could cause cancer, will it do so in the patient? Is it likely to cause cancer if a person eats nothing but the injected tissue? What is the likelihood that it might cause cancer in the real world?

Nitrites in cured meat might trigger cancer, we are not banning them. Is the red meat being eaten going to be a significant health risk especially after a suitable withdrawal period?

I used to use finadyne and TMS 48% in large animal practice and would have hated to lose them. The others much less so.

RE: Drugs withdrawn - speechless

Freya . — Sat, 28 Jul 2018 10:42:04 GMT

Thanks have to admit I really like flunixen for horses and miserable sick cows not sure if it's genuinely more effective or if I just believe it is. Have never tried IV metacam on a colic (only used it once in horses although always carry it) when you used Wren did you then give flunixen on 2nd visit or did they grumble on as uncomfortable but not requiring further action?

Also to quiz you further Micheal what dosing interval do you use for cattle/sheep with metacam?

RE: Drugs withdrawn - speechless

Emily Rainbow — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 21:54:09 GMT

And with equitape going it’s not a good time to

be an equine!

RE: Drugs withdrawn - speechless

Martin McDowell — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 15:57:38 GMT

It was probably withdrawn as there have been reports that it MAY cause cancer in humans:

... just a few sources I found. Would be great if VMD would add references to their decisions. Surely they should prove and encourage evidence based decisions.

RE: Drugs withdrawn - speechless

Bob Russell — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 10:55:19 GMT

Seems a massive over-reaction to me.

If the concern is nitrosamine formation then they would be banning cured meats and much else.

No products that we use here but a few important ones for large animal treatment. Perhaps extending the withdrawal periods and/or limiting to non-food animals might have been more constructive pending further work or the removal of the problem component by manufacturers.

RE: Drugs withdrawn - speechless

Wren — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 08:15:54 GMT

[quote user="F Brookes"]

do you find horses respond as well to meloxicam as they do flunixen

[/quote]

I find meloxicam useful for orthopaedic pain, but I don't think it comes anywhere near flunixin for visceral pain. I have tried it for a few colics, and not been impressed. If we can't get flunixin, then I will move to phenylbutazone for those, in preference to meloxicam. PBZ isn't as good as flunixin, but I would rate it above meloxicam.

RE: Drugs withdrawn - speechless

Wren — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 08:10:34 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]Norodine 24 is licensed IV in horses and Tribrissen cost me 3X as much so it's a no brainer (and seemingly Norodine 24 not affected). You still have IV TMPS.[/quote]

We do (although I have heard tell that Norodine production is going to stop - unrelated to this situation), but I'm increasingly reluctant to use them. I have never had a problem worse than a horse swaying a bit during administration, but a number of equine vets I know and have worked with have had horses drop dead mid injection. When even specialists don't use them any more due to this issue then I am using them less and less myself. Having had a perfectly fit, healthy and much loved horse drop dead on me during a routine (penicillin) injection a few years ago that is a scenario I never ever want to encounter again. So it's IM TMPS all the way for me. Or at least it was, until last night...

RE: Well, speechless

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 26 Jul 2018 23:22:00 GMT

Norodine 24 is licensed IV in horses and Tribrissen cost me 3X as much so it's a no brainer (and seemingly Norodine 24 not affected). You still have IV TMPS.

[quote user="F Brookes"]Michael do you find horses respond as well to meloxicam as they do flunixen and is it effective for 72hrs or do you notice a tail off?[/quote]

There is no way it lasts for 72 hours. I'm happy starting oral NSAID the next day.The data sheet for the injectable product states: "Metacam 15 mg/ml oral suspension may be used for continuation of treatment at a dosage of 0.6 mg meloxicam/kg body weight, 24 hours after administration of the injection."

RE: Well, speechless

Wren — Thu, 26 Jul 2018 22:54:55 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]I didn't see this as much of a issue[/quote]

I use about a bottle of Finadyne a week, maybe more, and plenty of Tribrissen. Used to be happy with iv TMPS. No longer. I see a big issue, as do my equine colleagues.

RE: Well, speechless

Freya . — Thu, 26 Jul 2018 22:51:22 GMT

Michael do you find horses respond as well to meloxicam as they do flunixen and is it effective for 72hrs or do you notice a tail off?

RE: Well, speechless

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 26 Jul 2018 21:53:44 GMT

So everything with flunixin and Tribrissen? We use Norodine 24 anyway and I use almost no flunixin with meloxicam being my preference (including in horses).

I didn't see this as much of a issue.