Cannabis Oil to treat OA

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 15 Oct 2018 14:56:01 GMT

[quote user="Andrea Tarr"]Canine Arthritis Management (CAM) recently asked for the facts on CBD in canine arthritis.[/quote]Does anyone else think its amusing this organisation has the acronym CAM or am I just being cynical?

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Andrea Tarr — Mon, 15 Oct 2018 14:28:02 GMT

Canine Arthritis Management (CAM) recently asked for the facts on CBD in canine arthritis.

https://caninearthritis.co.uk/cam-conversation-with-andrea-tarr-from-veterinary-prescriber-about-cannabidiol-cbd-use-in-dogs-with-osteoarthritis/

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Andrew Mellor — Fri, 13 Jul 2018 14:10:53 GMT

So last night I saw a client's old Labrador that has very severe arthritis and degenerative neuropathy too, but suddenly she had seemed much worse and they were convinced she was also blind.

I examined her ( retinas / optic discs looked normal) and true enough she had no noticeable menace reflex and extremely bulging eye but pressures were normal as far as I could tell as she kept moving and trying to eat my fingers and equipment. she was also extremely anxious , I knocked a pen of my consult table and you would have thought I had shot her!, when food was offered she went loopy over it,

I then discussed her medication, she is on loxicom gabapentin and paracetamol, oh and she's been on cbd oil for ages!

so what has changed- the CBD oil from a health food shop that other people had used for animals

had run out and they had ordered some of the internet, the strength was nearly 3 times that of the original product and actually had no mention on the pealing off very home made looking label that THC had been removed

according to a little reading I have done she was on approx. 10 x the dose she should have been on and I think "tripping the light fantastic" with both the munchies and paranoid side effects.

I will let you know how she gets on with her sight as the "drug " comes out of her system.

this link made some interesting reading https://eternalplants.com.au/cbd-oil/cbd-oil-for-dogs-everything-you-need-to-know/

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Robert FalconerTaylor — Fri, 13 Jul 2018 06:35:43 GMT

Cats have beaten you all to it - Marijuana intoxication in a cat

https://actavetscand.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13028-018-0398-0

Marijuana intoxication in a cat

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Julie Innes — Wed, 11 Jul 2018 15:15:33 GMT

I knew it! I knew I was onto something!

No mention of it being used in ancient times, but I'm sure we could find something

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 11 Jul 2018 11:30:10 GMT

I'd prefer the Tracey Fruit.

Yours, I. Persimmon

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Rob Davis — Wed, 11 Jul 2018 09:09:24 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"] It will cure everything from cancer through depression to allergies. We will buy shares of Sharon Fruit and sit back and relax as the money rolls in! Watch this space....[/quote]

Apparently it does all this and more...

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Julie Innes — Tue, 10 Jul 2018 18:42:31 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]

Ok, so here's my evil plan to put ALL vets out of business!

I'm going to market a capsule that contains CBD, glucosamine, AND turmeric - should cure everything, so there!

...what, i'm missing an ingredient? What else should go in this magic capsule? over to the forums!

[/quote]

Aha! We have already had this discussion in the clinic, and we reckon we will come up with the Next Best Thing. After some debate we settled on the Sharon Fruit- exotic enough to be convincing (after all, hard to persuade even the general public that apples are curative for anything) but available enough to be familiar-ish! We will leak it to random websites about the amazing cure-all potential of the Sharon Fruit. No doubt it has been around since ancient times (there may even be rumours that Jesus used it in his miracles, but of course we can't confirm that!). We will distill it, make an essence, a powder and capsules. we may even have it as a drinkable "elixir" It tastes quite nice! It will cure everything from cancer through depression to allergies. We will buy shares of Sharon Fruit and sit back and relax as the money rolls in! Watch this space....

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Martin McDowell — Tue, 10 Jul 2018 11:28:56 GMT

We shall see if there is any evidence that supports this new approach. Till then I will remain unconvinced and breath will not be held.

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Dinu Catilina — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 23:23:19 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]

I'm going to market a capsule that contains CBD, glucosamine, AND turmeric - should cure everything, so there!

...what, i'm missing an ingredient? What else should go in this magic capsule? over to the forums!

[/quote]

You might want to dilute it well before going on the market. For better effect

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Judith Archbold — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 20:40:56 GMT

Mark.... you’ll have to market it as a “ Raw Food Supplement”.

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Mark Hedberg — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 19:51:54 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]

[quote user="Julie Innes"]That's AMAZING, Clive[/quote]

Almost as good as turmeric.

[/quote]

Ok, so here's my evil plan to put ALL vets out of business!

I'm going to market a capsule that contains CBD, glucosamine, AND turmeric - should cure everything, so there!

...what, i'm missing an ingredient? What else should go in this magic capsule? over to the forums!

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Dinu Catilina — Sun, 08 Jul 2018 09:19:47 GMT

Cannabis and pain.

https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lanpub/PIIS2468-2667(18)30110-5.pdf

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Dinu Catilina — Wed, 04 Jul 2018 15:26:24 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]That's AMAZING, Clive[/quote]

Almost as good as turmeric.

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Julie Innes — Wed, 04 Jul 2018 15:15:30 GMT

That's AMAZING, Clive. It must really be great, huh? No doubt we vets are keeping it hushed up so we can peddle our extortionate services and medications.

Head. Wall. Bang

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Clive Ansell — Wed, 04 Jul 2018 10:40:28 GMT

Well, after saying I have an open mind, I have found this. Sounds like wonderful stuff and I am now totally convinced.

https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/cbd-oil-for-dogs

claims;

A senior Staffordshire Terrier had a 6cm mammary tumor and metastasis that disappeared in 3 months and didn’t come back …

A Jack Russell Terrier had a severe heart murmur and painful arthritis and, after a month, he wanted to go for long walks and his murmur was much improved …

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Clive Ansell — Wed, 04 Jul 2018 10:35:20 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]We have licenced products available to us for the conditions described (nsaid's, the dreaded 'roids, opiates, paracetamol) so in the first instance going off label would be illegal. [/quote]

But is CBD sold as medication or as a nutraceutical? Some vets also sell glucosamine is this any worse? Is it really illegal?

Isn't this a bit too much fuss?

[/quote]

No fuss, no bother, no worries.

Unsure of actual legality, but I don't think we should be recommending, advising or prescribing products that have unproven efficacy or safety, certainly in the case cited in the OP as licenced medicines for the described conditions are available.

I guess someone could add Glucosamine to CBD Cannabis Oil, and give it a silly name to market it, and then have a product that is unproved against more conditions.

I happy to keep an open mind, but as with homeopathy all I ask is some reliable good quality peer reviewed evidence that it works.

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Julie Innes — Wed, 04 Jul 2018 08:55:33 GMT

Yup, I've had clients asking me about this too (the joy of social media!)

I say I have no knowledge, there haven't been any trials etc, and as such I can't advise. What they choose to do behind my back is their own look out

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Dinu Catilina — Wed, 04 Jul 2018 00:24:02 GMT

But is CBD sold as medication or as a nutraceutical? Some vets also sell glucosamine is this any worse? Is it really illegal?

Isn't this a bit too much fuss?

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Clive Ansell — Tue, 03 Jul 2018 12:40:06 GMT

[quote user="Judith Archbold"]She then asked for some CBD Cannabis Oil to give to the dog. I’m not a local drug dealer so I looked a bit surprised ... not sure where that would fit into The Cascade?[/quote]

it doesn't.

We have licenced products available to us for the conditions described (nsaid's, the dreaded 'roids, opiates, paracetamol) so in the first instance going off label would be illegal.

Unless and until there is supporting evidence, then this would have to go in the same bin as other quack remedies and homeopathy.

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 03 Jul 2018 11:16:02 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I want to give the Home Secretary a good slapping for bending to the media coverage and allowing the drug for that one child, thereby giving credence to the anecdote. I think he should only have done it in the context of research ('Look, neither we nor you really know whether the treatment has stopped your child's seizures, but you can have it on the basis that your child's seizures are properly monitored for research'). [/quote]

I want to administer the good slapping for making all the noises about "this drug is highly illegal, the government remains committed to the war on drugs, blah blah blah..." when The Authorities have pretty well abandoned The War on cannabis..... cannabis farms raided and shut down, yes, but a mere slap on the wrist for possession and a blind eye turned to use.

It's high time that proper cannabis-based drugs were licensed for medical use and at the same time a zero-tolerance policy adopted for illegal possession and use.

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 03 Jul 2018 11:00:14 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Yes, I've been tearing my hair out about the media coverage; the way it takes one or two anecdotes ('my child took cannabis oil and stopped having seizures') and turns them into 'Cannabis oil is the panacea we've all been looking for.'[/quote]I have to say when this news story emerged the first thing I thought about was your experience and did rather imagine you with tufts of hair in your hands. It seems from what I understood that someone involved in the pressure to have the import made legal may have a vested interest in its sale. Shades of homeopaths exploiting the desperate and vulnerable?

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 03 Jul 2018 10:50:35 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]The issue with the product that was in the news regarding children with epilepsy is that it contains THC, the psychoactive ingredient in cannabis, whereas the Holland and Barrett product has virtually no THC in it (less than 0.05%)[/quote]

Yes, I've been tearing my hair out about the media coverage; the way it takes one or two anecdotes ('my child took cannabis oil and stopped having seizures') and turns them into 'Cannabis oil is the panacea we've all been looking for.'

I find it frustrating because there is simply no way that the parent of one child could possibly know whether their child's seizures had stopped because of the treatment, or because of, say, regression to the mean.

Meanwhile, it makes a great news story, the idea that this slightly naughty drug could actually have medical benefits (bit like the one about red wine and cardiac benefits), particularly when you throw in a sick child.

I want to give the Home Secretary a good slapping for bending to the media coverage and allowing the drug for that one child, thereby giving credence to the anecdote. I think he should only have done it in the context of research ('Look, neither we nor you really know whether the treatment has stopped your child's seizures, but you can have it on the basis that your child's seizures are properly monitored for research').

There was a lot of hype about the CBD-only version, which proved ineffective for our child. Although I understand the trials found it's as effective as certain other AEDs (ie limited), I am hugely sceptical of even that.

CBD+THC seems more plausible to me for seizures, and I'd like to try it.

But I think at the moment, nobody really knows whether it does anything for anything!

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Liz Barton — Tue, 03 Jul 2018 09:50:24 GMT

These cannaboid products have just been licensed for UK use, but marketed as 'wellness' biscuits, which doesn't exactly fill one with confidence! Mainly mood improvement, but other potential 'benefits' are hinted at.

https://austinandkat.co.uk/about-cbd-hemp/

(it was in this month's Need to Know newsletter). No personal use or experience though...

RE: Cannabis Oil to treat OA

Louise6732 — Tue, 03 Jul 2018 09:47:31 GMT

[quote user="Judith Archbold"]

so.... I had a new client in today with her lovely 15 year old Border Collie. She is “ going off her back legs” .... ie. part OA in hips and lower back most likely with age related neuromuscular degeneration thrown in. The owner won’t allow me to “ mess around with her” to take some bloods to check renal parameters for NSAIDs ... but then the owner also wouldn’t allow me to offer NSAIDs / gabapentin etc. anyway... in fact she had that “ I’m not listening to you “ face on.

She then asked for some CBD Cannabis Oil to give to the dog. I’m not a local drug dealer so I looked a bit surprised ... not sure where that would fit into The Cascade? Apparently you can buy the capsules from Holland and Barrat ....which according to the owner I should have known as “ all her friends’ vets talk about it”.

Am I missing a chunk of CPD? I didn’t realise cannabis oil was widely used in the veterinary world? ... I presuming she’s just jumped on the public band wagon , extrapolating from its use in child seizures.

I sent her off with some Pardale in the end so hopefully the dog is a bit happier this evening.

[/quote]

Hi Judith, I clicked through to this website from the vetsurgeon ‘roundup’ email newsletter (which incidentally Arlo et al, is really useful for keeping up to date with things like this, thank you!)

https://austinandkat.co.uk/about-cbd-hemp/

I can’t speak for its efficacy, safety etc. However it looks like a supplement rather than POMV so the client should be able to obtain herself?

Louise