Water Intoxication in dogs

RE: Water Intoxication in dogs

Robin Grimmer — Fri, 06 Jul 2018 13:51:45 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

I can't collaborate this, but both my children (aged 18 and 20, the latter at University) maintain that what kills you with (E) ectasy is not the drug but the overdrinking that it initiates, leading to death from neurological signs.

Neil

[/quote]

Not quite. MDMA causes release of anti-diuretic hormone - which reduces urine output - and it is this that leads to overhydration if you keep drinking. It doesn't cause overdrinking itself.

RE: Water Intoxication in dogs

Neil Wheadon — Fri, 06 Jul 2018 10:10:58 GMT

Neil

RE: Water Intoxication in dogs

Roland Bulkyn-Rackowe — Fri, 06 Jul 2018 10:01:57 GMT

I was in a small practice where we saw a case just after we obtained our first electrolyte machine (2001?). Young JRT playing with the kids in a paddling pool on a searing hot day, he drank loads according to the owner. I think it was seizuring when it came in and had a very low sodium. I remember having to look it up as I didn't know it occured in dogs. I don't remember the case details well but he survived. The only time I'd heard of it before was in the news, when Leah Betts died after overdrinking water after taking MDMA in the mid nineties.

RE: Water Intoxication in dogs

Julie Innes — Wed, 04 Jul 2018 17:18:54 GMT

I thought there had been reports of marathon runners dropping from hyponatraemia due to drinking too much water too?

In the dog I mentioned upthread, the owner reports in the subsequent hours it urinated loads, so suspect it had taken on far more water than they realised.

RE: Water Intoxication in dogs

Clive Ansell — Wed, 04 Jul 2018 11:20:40 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]Earlier this year, a 28-year-old California woman died after competing in a radio station's on-air water-drinking contest. After downing some six liters of water in three hours in the "Hold Your Wee for a Wii" (Nintendo game console) contest, Jennifer Strange vomited, went home with a splitting headache, and died from so-called water intoxication.[/quote]

Neil - out of interest, as a cycle tour leader, what do you advise cyclists drink when on tour, in terms of both quantities and types of drink.?

On the long audax rides I do I tend to drink between 500 and 750 ml an hour, depending on temperature and weather. Usually just water, but do carry energy drinks or gels on long rides that I almost never use.

RE: Water Intoxication in dogs

Robin Grimmer — Tue, 03 Jul 2018 12:09:28 GMT

I couldn't see how a dog could accidentally ingest that much water while swimming in a lake, but I don't know the details of the individual cases.

PS thanks regards LEJOG, doing France Channel to Med in August. Enjoyed seeing your cycling photos from Japan.

Maybe we should just open a VS cycling thread

RE: Water Intoxication in dogs

Neil Wheadon — Tue, 03 Jul 2018 11:35:01 GMT

These cases though are accidental ingestion, AKA a dog impacting with sand chasing a ball on the beach. Hot day, owner takes dog to lake, river, throws ball, dog catches ball in lake, ingests water and so it goes on. The result is the same isn't it? Any other explanation for a hyponatraemic dog with neurological signs?

Neil

PS Welcome back and good effort on LEJOG (see any post can go back to cycling and the Tour starts this W/E)

RE: Water Intoxication in dogs

Robin Grimmer — Tue, 03 Jul 2018 11:20:52 GMT

I'm with Niall - I don't buy it. There's a huge difference between someone deliberately drinking huge quantities of water when they are not dehydrated and washing all the salts out of their body - to a thirsty dog drinking a lot after being out in the hot sun. I'm worried we could see cases where dogs are getting dehydrated/overheated because owners are afraid to let their hot dogs have a drink!

RE: Water Intoxication in dogs

Neil Wheadon — Tue, 03 Jul 2018 08:07:02 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]Sorry, but my sceptometer is twitching just a tad [/quote]

Well just because it's rare doesn't mean it doesn't exist

Ultimately we're just one big chemistry set and it's been reported in people as well as dogs. The information I've seen suggests that there is a spike of cases at the moment and I can see the logic. Scientific American have done an article so it must be true https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-drinking-too-much-water-can-kill/

Second paragraph - Earlier this year, a 28-year-old California woman died after competing in a radio station's on-air water-drinking contest. After downing some six liters of water in three hours in the "Hold Your Wee for a Wii" (Nintendo game console) contest, Jennifer Strange vomited, went home with a splitting headache, and died from so-called water intoxication.

Neil

RE: Water Intoxication in dogs

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 22:02:26 GMT

I think you mean secondary drowning (which is what I thought these cases probably were) rather than dry drowning.

RE: Water Intoxication in dogs

Emily Rainbow — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 17:39:04 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Emily Rainbow"]I’ve heard of dry drowning following these sorts of activities but not water intoxication.[/quote]Surely 'dry drowning' is when the larynx goes into reflex spasm to prevent inhalation of water so the victim just asphyxiates. There would be little or no inhalation of water then.

[/quote]

Sort of, I think there is some initial inhalation to set things in motion...

http://www.highstreeteppingvetclinic.com/neardrowningsynd.pml

RE: Water Intoxication in dogs

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 17:04:14 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]been in and out of water all day, apparently just stopped swimming and "drowned"- keeled over in the water and sank! [/quote]One of the issues with human drowning casualties is the amount of water that can absorbed through the lungs can cause so called 'water intoxication'.

RE: Water Intoxication in dogs

Niall Taylor — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 16:44:53 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]The case quoted was a Springer Spanial in Lake Windermere this week. On a hot day had been in and out, in and out chasing a ball all day. (he/she died 7 hours later)

Another was playing with a hosepipe[/quote]

Neither case is that convincing tbh, there could be all sorts of other possibilities than water intoxification in both those cases. Where did they get the idea it was water intoxification other than there was a lot of water around at the time?

The syndrome in pigs depends on a very specific set of circumstances unlikely in the pet dog situation. They need to have had a high salt diet for a while and at the same time have been deprived of water. Then, when they finally get access to water the sudden rehyration in the presence of excess sodium ions causes the signs.

Sorry, but my sceptometer is twitching just a tad ;-)

Niall

RE: Water Intoxication in dogs

Emily Rainbow — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 16:35:12 GMT

I’ve heard of dry drowning following these sorts of activities but not water intoxication.

RE: Water Intoxication in dogs

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 15:32:22 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]They saw our OOH service, and looking at the bloods the dogs NA+ was a bit low, but they didn't want to leave the dog there so took it home, and it seemed to be ok![/quote]

That's really interesting. Almost a case of benign neglect allowing the body to sort itself out (as Bob Michel lectured us) curing rather than being overly perfused IV

Neil

RE: Water Intoxication in dogs

Julie Innes — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 13:47:11 GMT

I think I may have seen one last week, although hours after the effect. Clients dog, been in and out of water all day, apparently just stopped swimming and "drowned"- keeled over in the water and sank! They did CPR and the dog survived. They saw our OOH service, and looking at the bloods the dogs NA+ was a bit low, but they didn't want to leave the dog there so took it home, and it seemed to be ok!

RE: Water Intoxication in dogs

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 12:52:09 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]What causes it?[/quote]

The case quoted was a Springer Spanial in Lake Windermere this week. On a hot day had been in and out, in and out chasing a ball all day. (he/she died 7 hours later)

Another was playing with a hosepipe

It's a condition that could be confused with heatstroke, so I thought it was a useful 'heads up' in this hot weather.

They can present with dehydration and hypovolaemia

The aetiology is Hyponatraemia and as the dog drinks, cells swell and cerebral oedema developes secondary to osmotic movement into the cells.

In treatment it seems that you need to correct the hyponatraemia slowly to avoid life threatening neurological damage (the neutrons separate from their myelin coverage) You correct with 0.9% saline with a slow perfusion allowing the sodium to gradually rise.

I hope that helps. Reference from 'Small Animal Neurological Emergencies', which is in the practice library this morning.

Neil

RE: Water Intoxication in dogs

Niall Taylor — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 12:22:38 GMT

What causes it? I've only ever heard of it in pigs after prolonged periods without water. It sounds a bit unlikely in a pet.

Niall

RE: Water Intoxication in dogs

Jill Butterworth — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 08:50:15 GMT

I haven't seen one (but don't have an emergency work caseload). It wouldn't be the only thing to spring to mind, given the signalment and the history...