Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Mark Hedberg — Mon, 04 Jun 2018 13:29:42 GMT

Wouldn't that be Elanco now? IIRC they bought Novartis' animal health assets.

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Thomas Johnson — Mon, 04 Jun 2018 13:24:22 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Some time back there was a letter suggesting PLT might be returning this summer. Might be worth contacting Novartis for an update. If it does and is still in the crazy pots of 1000 then write a prescription and get a few to try.[/quote]

I had heard this too, my understanding was that it was a manufacturing problem that was taking time to fix.

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Bob Russell — Mon, 04 Jun 2018 11:31:49 GMT

Some time back there was a letter suggesting PLT might be returning this summer. Might be worth contacting Novartis for an update. If it does and is still in the crazy pots of 1000 then write a prescription and get a few to try.

Wonderful stuff!!

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Julie Innes — Mon, 04 Jun 2018 08:39:12 GMT

I've used cartrophen quite successfully in some dogs where nothing else has worked. Didn't work in my own dog though

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Mark Hedberg — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 11:20:15 GMT

[quote user="Liz Barton"]

Does anyone rate Cartrophen? One of my colleagues uses a lot and I thought I'd heard there was some new evidence to support it's use? Never used it personally - just wondering if others had.

[/quote]

In mild arthritis i've found it helpful - in severe cases where there's not much cartilage left, I don't find it effective - which does make sense. Admittedly anecdotal. It's also helpful for those cases where owners are a bit wary of nsaids but do want something while they get used to the idea of meds in their dogs.

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Robert FalconerTaylor — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 09:08:58 GMT

Just doing my sunday round-up of e-alerts and came across this. The first 2 articles are relevant to what has already been suggested for wee Eddie - acupuncture and opioids in chronic OA/musculoskeletal pain in humans - both open access...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/journal/the-journal-of-pain/vol/19/issue/5

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Liz Barton — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:22:46 GMT

Hydrotherapy helps with my geriatric pooch's mobility. She's on Onsior and not had a problem.

Tramadol/ketamine good for analgesia, but I do worry about the possibility of development of drug dependancy longer term.

Does anyone rate Cartrophen? One of my colleagues uses a lot and I thought I'd heard there was some new evidence to support it's use? Never used it personally - just wondering if others had.

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Anthony Todd — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 14:58:19 GMT

Why don't you all add a very small, ie un-therapeutic, amount of pred to your current favourite?

As with the un-therapeutic dose of pred in PLT, it may have some sort of additive or potentiating effect??

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Julie Innes — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 13:34:45 GMT

PLT was still around a couple of years ago but it suddenly rocketed in price then disappeared! I quite liked it in old creaky dogs too!

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Judith Archbold — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 12:37:57 GMT

I suddenly feel really old!

Agree with Anthony...when I first graduated (1994) we had PBZ and PLT. Lots of old arthritic dogs running around quite happily for years with no problems. Life was so much simpler then .... not necessarily better now either.

Why did PLT disappear? Was it a licensing issue?

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Anthony Todd — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 11:38:06 GMT

[quote user="Emily Rainbow"] bits and bobs.[/quote]

I know that butazolidine is now a no-no but I used it, trouble free for years??

Although PLT was better!! [and, then so cheap, er, er, not now??]

Was there ever any real evidence, or was it spun from human gastric problems??

Just wondering.

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Emily Rainbow — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 07:57:32 GMT

Worth having a look at Canine Arthritis Managment Group’s bits and bobs.

But I would definitely be adding amantadine/ketamine into the mix.

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

David Mills — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 21:19:00 GMT

Ket is normally given at 0.1ml per 10kg by the Liverpool people.

Anecdote. Mothers lab had severe djd. On carprofen full dose for years. Added in 5mg pred sid (40kg lab) and like a different dog. Went on another 2y bounding up the fells until pts for necrotising pancreatitis.

Gut related nsaid issues are thought to be locally mediated so may be worth trying carprofen or someuch. Otherwise paracetamol, pred low dose, plus minus ket (ime ketamine has always done f all)

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Julian Earl — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 21:14:20 GMT

I have sympathy, I had a Labrador with similar issues. Sadly this was in the days of phenybutazone or nothing! PBZ = diarrhoea!

It was very sad to see a boisterous puppy-like Labrador aged 13 hobbled by bad elbows, hocks and hips!

Eventually after a very brief foray with ibuprofen about which Tom Holland from Boots plc told me that it was highly dangerous in dogs. Eventually, the best option was soluble aspirin. A 40kgLab on 300mg twice daily that seemed reasonably effective. If only I'd had carprofen available in those days! I always found carprofen to be the safest of the modern NSAIDs So maybe try that instead of meloxicam?

If all else fails, how about PLT? Surely someone has some lying about on a shelf somewhere? It took ages to empty those tubs of 1,000!

I do not think that opiates are very effective in arthritis, either in people I am told by those who now [ apharmacist specialised in rheumatoid arthritis, or in dogs. in my experience.

Good luck, I hope this helps? I used ketamine I/m once a week or fortnight but will have to check the dose. It was about 0.5ml for a Dobermann I do recall.

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Sarah Keir — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 21:03:14 GMT

[quote user="Judith Archbold"]

Another vote for Troxocil.

[/quote]

I also can't get Troxo-kil out of my head...

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Rob Davis — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 19:46:36 GMT

[quote user="KMurphy"]

[quote user="villagevet"]I have used low dose ketamine sub cut[/quote]

Can you remember off-hand what dose/how often?

[/quote]

I would second this suggestion. I can't remember the dose we use of the top of my head, but will try to find out. It is a very low dose and sometimes really seems to help for several weeks/months at a time.

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Judith Archbold — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 19:17:54 GMT

Another vote for Troxocil.

sadly can’t get PLT anymore.....was a great drug for these cases!

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Anthony Todd — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 19:14:30 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Is PLT still available? used to find it worked well for spondylosis cases.[/quote]

Back in [jeepers] 2002 odd, I'd put dogs on Metacam, but still trouble, on PLT with dramatic, thankful, improvement.

Even I, the world's steroid disciple, can't believe the small amount of corticosteroid did it all??

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

KMurphy — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 17:06:12 GMT

[quote user="villagevet"]I have used low dose ketamine sub cut[/quote]

Can you remember off-hand what dose/how often?

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Lindsey Edwards — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:42:51 GMT

I have used low dose ketamine sub cut in a few spinal and rhabdomyolysis pain cases, mobility improved significantly and no dysphoria

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Julie Innes — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 15:09:16 GMT

I'm afraid I have no further ideas re pain relief, but just chipping in to say what a handsome dude Ed is! Hope you find a regime that suits him

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

KMurphy — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 15:02:34 GMT

Thanks for all the suggestions. Pred 5mg EOD seems doable so I might try that after all.

After a little Google re: ketamine I was led to amantadine as a possibility just as someone suggested, so may add this to the armoury also.

Ed’s going to be 12 this month and I just want to make his life as comfortable as possible.

Thank you again :)

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Clive Ansell — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:54:03 GMT

Is PLT still available? used to find it worked well for spondylosis cases.

I know people shy away from it, but I still think prednisolone is worth a trail at least. The SBT I mentioned earlier in the thread is only on 5mg eod I think. It is such a low dose, side effects and pu/pd are not apparent.

Given there has already been adverse reaction to nsaid's, I would be inclined to not use any others, with or without Zantac or Omeprazole etc. Nsaid's are not benign and harmless drugs, and there are alternative options. Just my opinion that's all.

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Niall Taylor — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:00:59 GMT

Intra-articular depomed injections. My mum used to say the pain relief was like 'coming out of the clouds' when she'd had her joints injected although, to be fair, she wasn't a veterinary specialist

Niall

RE: Help with my own dog - NSAID intolerant and painful

Thomas Johnson — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 13:56:25 GMT

[quote user="Joyce Whitehead"] We also have nsaid intolerant dogs on gaba, pardale, and tramadol (and I rarely use the latter as I’m not convinced of benefit). [/quote]

Does anyone know if you can still get sublingual buprenorphine tablets?