Rabbit with cardiac failure

RE: Rabbit with cardiac failure

Edward Jones — Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:32:43 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

not heard from them for 2 weeks for an update.

[/quote]

I call these Schroedinger's cases - until you make that follow up call you just don't know...

[/quote]

Inevitably it seems, you make the call and the owner reports all well, then you see it 2 days later with a sudden deterioration...

RE: Rabbit with cardiac failure

Marie Kubiak — Tue, 12 Jun 2018 12:52:15 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

not heard from them for 2 weeks for an update.

[/quote]

I call these Schroedinger's cases - until you make that follow up call you just don't know...

RE: Rabbit with cardiac failure

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 12 Jun 2018 11:26:27 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]

This Rabbit has cardiac disease and I see loads in Rabbits

Your treatment seems appropriate

Goodluck

[/quote]Thanks for the vote of confidence, not heard from them for 2 weeks for an update.

RE: Rabbit with cardiac failure

Mark Rowland — Tue, 12 Jun 2018 09:42:05 GMT

This Rabbit has cardiac disease and I see loads in Rabbits

Your treatment seems appropriate

Goodluck

RE: Rabbit with cardiac failure

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 06 Jun 2018 10:48:41 GMT

It has responded very well to Pimonbendan and frusemide.

Here are the X-rays, as said not very diagnostic due to conscious bunny and tachypnoea:

RE: Rabbit with cardiac failure

Julie Innes — Wed, 06 Jun 2018 08:50:41 GMT

interesting case! Any updates Martin? Have you given it any treatment, and if so what and how? (Just asking cos whenever I see these interesting cases on here I end up getting one presented to me- it's like when you suddenly think of a patient/ client and think, gosh, I haven't seen X for ages....5 minutes later!)

RE: Rabbit with cardiac failure

Marie Kubiak — Tue, 05 Jun 2018 12:59:45 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

Thanks for the reply Marie. I may get round to posting the X-rays bu it was so tachypnoeic its difficult to see much detail even on 2MaS. But the VHS is 10.5, the trachea is pushed up against the spine and the cardiac shadow is very rounded.

[/quote]

Sounds pretty convincing!

RE: Rabbit with cardiac failure

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 04 Jun 2018 16:59:14 GMT

RE: Rabbit with cardiac failure

Marie Kubiak — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 21:16:12 GMT

Sorry- holiday/dropping phone in water has limited online time!!

Age/breed?

I'm not going to pretend to be a cardiologist so can only give input on species aspect. AF can be 'normal' consequence of overwhelming catecholamine release so I'd repeat ECG when rabbit is not overtly stressed/dyspnoeic.

Respiratory disease and thymoma are far more common than cardiac disease (though rexes and giant breeds appear to have a higher incidence of cardiomyopathy). If older rabbit, thymoma is terrifyingly common.

What was VHS? Is trachea markedly elevated? Rabbit hearts always look massive to me even when normal so I have to use objective measures!

Worth getting more imaging done- ultrasound ideally to look at mediastinum and heart if you or the owner want to make a treatment plan or just know prognosis. I had a couple of cases of restrictive cardiomyopathy in rabbits which surprised me and had poor outcomes but owners were happier knowing why we couldn't fix them.

Marie

RE: Rabbit with cardiac failure

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 31 May 2018 16:51:51 GMT

[quote user="Edward Jones"]I didn't mean to imply that I don't believe it's heart disease, just that I probably wouldn't recognise it if it slapped me in the face! But I will certainly look into it more now, thank you.[/quote]No I was looking for respiratory disease as first stop. That's why we need Marie or Mark to come along!

[quote user="Edward Jones"]Perhaps stress precipitated the cardiac episode due to underlying disease.[/quote]Well I did wonder that because I've seen stress induced death in rabbits when a fox has been rummaging around a pen/run and inquired about that possibility. And then as often, on cross-examination, the owner admitted that 'he'd not been right for a while'.

RE: Rabbit with cardiac failure

Edward Jones — Thu, 31 May 2018 16:20:13 GMT

I didn't mean to imply that I don't believe it's heart disease, just that I probably wouldn't recognise it if it slapped me in the face! But I will certainly look into it more now, thank you.

Perhaps stress precipitated the cardiac episode due to underlying disease.

RE: Rabbit with cardiac failure

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 31 May 2018 15:18:48 GMT

[quote user="Edward Jones"]I don't think I'd recognise cardiomegaly in a rabbit.[/quote]I believe cardiac disease is quite common (waits for Marie)!

[quote user="Edward Jones"]You could look for pleural effusion with a scan,[/quote]Don't have US - decision based on cost/potential usage/time to retirement!!

[quote user="Edward Jones"]A heat or stress episode, perhaps?[/quote]Possible but where does the gross cardiomegaly and AF fit with that - could it just be coincidental?

[quote user="Edward Jones"]Your treatment may have been helpful - question is, how long do you continue with it?[/quote]Indefinitely if it is cardiac disease.

RE: Rabbit with cardiac failure

Edward Jones — Thu, 31 May 2018 14:22:35 GMT

I don't think I'd recognise cardiomegaly in a rabbit. You could look for pleural effusion with a scan, potentially? (Just use copious spirit and gel to flatten the fur, perhaps?).

A heat or stress episode, perhaps?

Your treatment may have been helpful - question is, how long do you continue with it?

RE: Rabbit with cardiac failure

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 31 May 2018 14:10:47 GMT

Well as no-one has answered I'll bump my own thread.

Anecdote alert: The bunny has made a good improvement after IV Pimobendan and tablets crushed and administered with water in a syringe. Of course it could be nothing to do with the treatment.