Increased Appetite in a Labrador

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Virginia Campbell — Mon, 21 May 2018 22:30:47 GMT

I saw a middle aged lab once that suddenly (over a few weeks) became very polyphagic (bin hoking, stealing food out of people's hands - had never done this sort of thing before). She had ADH - the adrenal mass was pretty big and spreading into the local vasculature when we went looking.

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Matt Hilary — Mon, 21 May 2018 13:26:06 GMT

Has the weight loss accelerated recently with onset of signs?

Would echo above suggestions of hypermetabolism, malabsorption or possible central issue leading to behavioural change.

If preliminary tests (biochem/haem/urinalysis) unremarkable I'd be tempted to trial a different diet for a short time as a diagnostic step before doing anything more invasive.

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Liz Barton — Sun, 20 May 2018 23:56:30 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]Indeed, there was a paper published by a group in Cambridge looking at genetic mutations in 'greedy' labradors https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/abstract/S1550-4131%2816%2930163-2 [/quote]

This paper always makes me smile when 'quoted' by owners who saw it widely publicised at the time on the media. They're all convinced 'My labrador has the 'fat' gene', when the allelic frequency in the measured population is only 12%. And it was shown to be much higher in assistance dogs at 45%, and I rarely see an obese assistance dog. Nature vs. nuture in action!

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Liz Barton — Sun, 20 May 2018 23:44:17 GMT

[quote user="Laura Kidd"]Any other cognitive or behavioural changes that might be considered age-related? Relatively young but could be a possibility.[/quote]

I agree with the age possibility - could this be senility? Maybe a Vivitonin trial?

Have there been any changes to this dog's routine e.g. owners out for longer each day so boredom??

All the other suggestions of HAC, hyperthyroid, CNS lesion all possible too. Definitely worth measuring water intake and running a urine sample as the next step. If any PUPD then follow up HAC.

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Anthony Todd — Sat, 19 May 2018 10:08:39 GMT

[quote user="Richard Carter"]

or supply some good simple carbohydrates, small amount of fat so that actual satiety satisfied (cottage cheese and glucose powder) onto this starvation diet he has been on and see if you haven't crashed out his metabolism by trying to get the weight off.

[/quote]

Starvation, even if relative, isn't nice, in fact, for a labrador, could amount to near cruelty, so a humane solution should be incorporated into the regime now supported by another.

PS Hyper-hunger hasn't been cited as a sign of any disease AFAIK on the forum until this case, but is endemic in normal labradors???

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Richard Carter — Sat, 19 May 2018 08:47:47 GMT

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Emma Middleton — Sat, 19 May 2018 08:06:35 GMT

Interesting case. I agree with Laura that he sounds like a dog on corticosteroids so might be worth discussing screening for HAC - urine cortisol:creat nice for this and I believe good sensitivity.

Maybe a liver scan but like you say, with unremarkable bloods then not really screaming for further diagnostics there. Urinalysis would be valuable and might prompt further diagnostics if low SG.

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Laura Kidd — Fri, 18 May 2018 18:00:16 GMT

Hi,

I have heard of labs being treated with corticosteroids behaving like this as they can become exceptionally hungry.

Therefore I would certainly still consider HAC as a possibility, if dog not currently receiving preds etc.

Any other cognitive or behavioural changes that might be considered age-related? Relatively young but could be a possibility.

Laura

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Niall Taylor — Fri, 18 May 2018 17:46:25 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]Indeed, there was a paper published by a group in Cambridge looking at genetic mutations in 'greedy' labradors[/quote]

Interesting paper, of course I've always suspected that the hypothalamic leptin melanocortin signaling pathway is crucial for the appropriate control of food intake, with genetic disruption of most components of the pathway resulting in severe obesity in both mouse and man. Nice to have it confirmed though

My problem is, I don't speak genetics!

Niall

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 18 May 2018 17:28:28 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]Hyperthyroidism? It has been reported occasionally in dogs and the signs on routine bloods can be vague.[/quote]

Cholesterol was low rather than high, it's a possibility but it's not screaming enough to pursue thyroid screens

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]Or maybe, as someone has said, having reached his target weight he now needs to increase his calorie intake to maintain it rather than continue to lose it.[/quote]

I wouldn't way he's reached his target weight. He's still a fat lab, just not as fat as before (was was 52kg!!)

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]

P.S. - I take it your tests covered EPI?

[/quote]

No. That's an interesting one

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Rob Loxley — Fri, 18 May 2018 17:25:13 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]I appreciate your views on labradors but they are not all the same[/quote]

Indeed, there was a paper published by a group in Cambridge looking at genetic mutations in 'greedy' labradors https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/abstract/S1550-4131%2816%2930163-2

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Niall Taylor — Fri, 18 May 2018 17:23:26 GMT

Hyperthyroidism? It has been reported occasionally in dogs and the signs on routine bloods can be vague.

Or maybe, as someone has said, having reached his target weight he now needs to increase his calorie intake to maintain it rather than continue to lose it.

Sounds a strange one,

Niall

P.S. - I take it your tests covered EPI?

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Anthony Todd — Fri, 18 May 2018 17:05:14 GMT

Why not find the most inedible cheapest lowest calorie biscuit and the lowest calorie dog food and give him that? And ad lib water of course.

A lot of "appetite" is a volume versus palatability thing.

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Cool — Fri, 18 May 2018 16:35:39 GMT

I will go the blood route myself. a complete blood count, full chemistry and urinalysis. However as the results are unremarkable i will consider changing him back to normal food to see if he will get satisfied and go from there.

While he was overweight and on low calorie diet he must have been mobilising his fat to meet energy demands. now that he probably has no fat left the food he is getting is probably not meeting his energy needs.

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Clive Ansell — Fri, 18 May 2018 15:44:42 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"] I am looking for some advice to help these owners, for me to shrug my shoulders and say 'he's a labrador, deal with it' isn't particularly helpful for them.[/quote]

Sorry - point taken.

if routine blood work and urinalysis are normal, maybe just give some time and see what develops? if really dedicated owners, maybe go down the ct/mri route of looking for a pituitary mass?

I still think, not knowing the dog or the owners of course, that he is a normal Lab until shown otherwise.

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 18 May 2018 15:23:45 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

If he's already lost 15 Kg, he must have been grossly overweight before? if so would guess he already had a reasonable appetite ?

I've owned 3 Labradors, all of which were walking waste disposal machines eating anything edible, and inedible.

[/quote]

Clive,

Yes he is a labrador, yes he has had an appetite before but he has never tried to steal food, even when he was fat and obese pre-diet, it's just the owner fed him crap. Now he's on decent food he is losing weight.

I appreciate your views on labradors but they are not all the same. The one I lost last week wasn't food orientated at all - he would only eat when he was hungry, we just left food down for him and he never stole food.

If I thought the dog was just being greedy I wouldn't have posted a question on this forum. I know this dog well and he is not the sort of dog to rip open cupboards. I am looking for some advice to help these owners, for me to shrug my shoulders and say 'he's a labrador, deal with it' isn't particularly helpful for them.

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Clive Ansell — Fri, 18 May 2018 15:15:21 GMT

If he's already lost 15 Kg, he must have been grossly overweight before? if so would guess he already had a reasonable appetite ?

I've owned 3 Labradors, all of which were walking waste disposal machines eating anything edible, and inedible.

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 18 May 2018 14:59:57 GMT

no, they're still on Satiety. My old nurse read the male owner the riot act and he sharpened up pretty quick. They still come in every 6-8 weeks for weight clinics and are still working hard to get a bit more weight off him!

I will go through feeding etc with them and check if anything has been missed.

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Julie Innes — Fri, 18 May 2018 14:54:45 GMT

My first thought when I read the title was "can there be such a thing?!"

But it does sound odd! What is his weight loss like now? Have the owners changed anything else and not told you? (I only ask because the dog I saw the other day that had been on an exclusion diet of pork and potato for his skin, and who was getting NOTHING else, absolutely nothing, seemed to be drinking a bit more "maybe because of the kibble we've started giving him....oops"

Could someone have been secretly giving the dog titbits in the kitchen (a visitor? relative?) and as such has taught the dog to look for it? Are they still using the satiety food, or have they found a cheaper-alternative-that-is-exactly-the-same and don't want to tell you?

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Lindsey Edwards — Fri, 18 May 2018 14:00:07 GMT

Pituatary mass?

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 18 May 2018 13:31:55 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

Don't get a Labrador

All sounds like normal Labrador to me.

[/quote]

This dog is 10 years old. Has never stolen food, only got fat because the owner fed him crap. Never stole even at the start of the diet. Only been doing it in the last couple of months, and is maniacally trying to get into cupboards.

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Kate Richardson — Fri, 18 May 2018 13:30:00 GMT

Check USG- could be developing Cushings, any mild liver enzyme elevations?

RE: Increased Appetite in a Labrador

Clive Ansell — Fri, 18 May 2018 13:11:24 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]Any tips on trying to control a ravenously hungry dog?[/quote]

Don't get a Labrador

All sounds like normal Labrador to me.