Canine tooth resorption

RE: Canine tooth resorption

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sun, 13 May 2018 17:31:35 GMT

[quote user="GrooveJet"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Via dentine resorption, it has to be.[/quote]

But why Evelyn? Whyyyyyy????

[/quote]

It's one of the body's possible responses to inflammation or irritation.

RE: Canine tooth resorption

Miriam Lodewyks — Sun, 13 May 2018 15:59:36 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Via dentine resorption, it has to be.[/quote]

But why Evelyn? Whyyyyyy????

RE: Canine tooth resorption

Rob Davis — Sat, 12 May 2018 16:30:15 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

Either via very narrow tracks from the periodontal ligament, or via very narrow tracks from the pulp.

With FORLs in the cat (way back when we often still called them "neck lesions") often the cavity would just look like a crater, no can't see any track deeper, ought to be able to fill that one with glass ionomer (the horrible Ketac Silver usually!).... of course it failed. If you probed very carefully with a sharp explorer and magnification, you always found the track going deeper.

[/quote]

If I'd been at my usual surgery with all my kit to hand I would have been tempted to try filling these, having warned the owner that there was a high chance of failure in due course.

Hopefully I will get to see this dog again in the future and will try to remember to update the forum with how it turns out (and I'll try to take pictures next time!).

It would be interesting to get histopathology done on the tooth post-extraction to try to identify a tract, although given the location of the lesion it would be difficult to separate the roots without destroying it.

RE: Canine tooth resorption

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 12 May 2018 16:15:45 GMT

[quote user="Rob Davis"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Via dentine resorption, it has to be.[/quote]

So it must be initiated by inflammation within the pulp causing internal resorption with eventual enamel collapse.... so why does there not appear to be any pulp exposure on probing? The shape of the lesions does not appear to be suggestive of this (wide external entrance, narrow dentine base rather than vice versa). I am kicking myself for not photographing these as it would make the discussion a little easier!

Sorry for labouring this point, and those of a less dental-orientated persuasion can switch off at this point! I just can't get my head around how these lesions would start.

[/quote]

Either via very narrow tracks from the periodontal ligament, or via very narrow tracks from the pulp.

RE: Canine tooth resorption

Rob Davis — Sat, 12 May 2018 09:06:52 GMT

[quote user="Beats"]

Forgive my ignorance (I'm new to this):

what are the white approx circular bits at bottom of each of roots of big tooth in first radigraph posted?

[/quote]

No more ignorant that the rest of us! I don't know either. I did post about some similar-looking lesions a few years ago, and the general consensus was that nobody else really knew either, but that they were probably not clinically significant.

It would be great if I could find an excuse to put this through the CT scanner to try to localise where they are!

RE: Canine tooth resorption

Rob Davis — Sat, 12 May 2018 08:56:26 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Via dentine resorption, it has to be.[/quote]

Sorry for labouring this point, and those of a less dental-orientated persuasion can switch off at this point! I just can't get my head around how these lesions would start.

RE: Canine tooth resorption

Beats — Fri, 11 May 2018 20:03:54 GMT

Forgive my ignorance (I'm new to this):

what are the white approx circular bits at bottom of each of roots of big tooth in first radigraph posted?

I can circle and repost if not clear what I mean.

RE: Canine tooth resorption

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 11 May 2018 18:02:51 GMT

[quote user="Rob Davis"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]True resorption is by definition done by odontoclasts, of course.... odontoclasts can be in pulp or in periodontal ligament, as far as I know.[/quote]

Yes, so how do they cause a lesion on the crown which is totally surrounded by apparently healthy enamel, i.e. no direct connection with either periodontal ligament or pulp?

[/quote]

Ah. I'm with you.

Via dentine resorption, it has to be.

RE: Canine tooth resorption

Rob Davis — Fri, 11 May 2018 16:57:22 GMT

[quote user="GrooveJet"]

Awesome radiographs!

[/quote]

Why thank you!

[quote user="GrooveJet"]What equipment did you use, if I may ask?[/quote]

Cheap chinese dental X-ray generator which is on its last legs and about to be replaced next week (yay!).

IM3 CR7 digital reader (I believe it is made by Durr and rebranded as IM3). I tried various other models before purchasing (I had already decided that I wanted CR rather than DR), and this was far superior to the others in my opinion (not surprisingly it was also the most expensive!). I love it and I miss it enormously when I occasionally need to go back to using film at out other surgery.

RE: Canine tooth resorption

Rob Davis — Fri, 11 May 2018 16:51:39 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]True resorption is by definition done by odontoclasts, of course.... odontoclasts can be in pulp or in periodontal ligament, as far as I know.[/quote]

Yes, so how do they cause a lesion on the crown which is totally surrounded by apparently healthy enamel, i.e. no direct connection with either periodontal ligament or pulp?

RE: Canine tooth resorption

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 11 May 2018 15:46:28 GMT

[quote user="GrooveJet"]Also, Evelyn, do you have any theories about what causes RL? I assume they are different disease processes in dogs and cats? Or not?[/quote]

I have no idea, and nor does anyone else, why the pathological condition (or in the cat it may be two separate conditions, we don't know) is in cats so common as to constitute a recognised syndrome.

It can occur sporadically in many species (possibly any mammal??) and when it occurs in the dog my hypothesis is that it is just one of the ways the tissues can react to periodontal or endodontic inflammation. Of course once the process starts it is self-perpetuating.

It's also in the last few years been recognised as a distinct syndrome in the horse. The aetiology remains unclear, to employ the usual euphemism.

RE: Canine tooth resorption

Miriam Lodewyks — Fri, 11 May 2018 14:37:29 GMT

Awesome radiographs!

What equipment did you use, if I may ask?

Also, Evelyn, do you have any theories about what causes RL? I assume they are different disease processes in dogs and cats? Or not?

RE: Canine tooth resorption

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 11 May 2018 13:25:22 GMT

[quote user="Rob Davis"]

OK, I accept I may be about to say something rather stupid, but.... I assume that these lesions are likely to be caused by odontoclastic activity, but where are the odontoclasts? Are they somehow acting through the dentine tubules?

[/quote]

True resorption is by definition done by odontoclasts, of course.... odontoclasts can be in pulp or in periodontal ligament, as far as I know.

RE: Canine tooth resorption

Rob Davis — Fri, 11 May 2018 08:51:14 GMT

RE: Canine tooth resorption

Rob Davis — Fri, 11 May 2018 08:48:05 GMT

Hmmm, rather what I thought. I've left them there for now as I didn't have enough time to embark on both.

I suspect I know what the answer will be, but any idea on aetiology?

RE: Canine tooth resorption

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 10 May 2018 02:15:53 GMT

Alas, whether you do it now or wait until it approaches pulp, I see no alternative to extraction.