Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

Anthony Todd — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 18:30:05 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]I'd add prognosis and client expectation to this[/quote]

For sure! And in spades, and add "you said" meaning it's what the client thought you had said or now wants you to think that's what you definitely said.....

PS and to be fair, if you're not getting much response, could you not drip some local on the lesion, and do a deep scrape onto a slide, or send it off??

Might be good to find if it really isn't some sort of cancer.....

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 18:05:20 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

This thread is beginning to merge with the "decision making" in that, I think dinovets used to think, initially, or only, about the treatment options, ie what can we do, and modvets think about a diagnosis before anything else.

With this nose there are really only two treatment options: C'steroids or A/Bs, surgery being, practically, out of the question, so the diagnosis is really immaterial, or am I way off track?

[/quote]

I'd add prognosis and client expectation to this

For treatment I could throw

Isaderm, Flamazine, Therios, Pred, Surolan (yes really) Noroclav etc at it. However if it's a long term condition and this is the tip of the iceberg then the client won't really like lots of visits with a scattergun approach

Neil

PS I E mailed today asking how it is. My one shot at follow up was Monday and the client cancelled, so maybe the isaderm is working or she's gone for another opinion

Neil

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

Anthony Todd — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 17:56:20 GMT

[quote user="Edward Jones"]I suppose a smear might have been helpful.[/quote]

With this nose there are really only two treatment options: C'steroids or A/Bs, surgery being, practically, out of the question, so the diagnosis is really immaterial, or am I way off track?

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

Edward Jones — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 12:30:09 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]Another day, another labrador nose[/quote]

I have recently seen a similar looking nose in a cocker spaniel. It didn't improve with antibiotics, then resolved with a course of anti-inflammatory dose prednisolone. Obviously the treatment was empirical and I discussed diagnostics/biopsy etc, but I hesitated before cutting off part of a dog's nose when there was no apparent contraindication to a short course of prednisolone.

I suppose a smear might have been helpful.

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

emma o'connor — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 07:09:36 GMT

Looks sore , is the dog bothered by it? I would be thinking some sort of infection maybe if discharge present as it looks unilateral to me. If no fb in the nose or infection then ? automimmune.

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

Neil Wheadon — Sat, 15 Jun 2019 22:59:22 GMT

Another day, another labrador nose

This one is 4 years old. It's red , slightly raised and a little bit supportive. The client has E Mailed me the picture, not a fabulous quality, but any ideas aside Isadern deficiency?

(Edit) I thought in the light of Brexit, I'd be inclusive to the Commonwealth, so have uploaded especially for out Antipodean friends

Neil

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

David Mills — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 02:21:35 GMT

[quote user="Chris Milligan"]

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

The chances of 4 litter mates all having it and all being female may this less likely to be DLE? There are also no other lesions and it hasn't got worse.

All good thoughts

Neil

[/quote]

Maybe a dermatologist can answer that but probably - I missed the bit about the other littermates having it. Having said that DLE is autoimmune and therefore likely heritable, though more of a thing in pointers, collies and GSDs as I understand. Still, any disease in any dog of course, and DLE can just present as a nasal lesion, as can all the other weird and wonderful pemphigi (may have just invented that word)

you could try it on vit E or pred for a bit and see what happens if they don't want to biopsy it

[/quote]

I seriously wouldn't biopsy this dog, and, frankly, would question the ethics of someone who would at this stage. This is not pemphigus, detailed by a competent and more-than-normal clinical history and examination.

Routine bloods at annual health check or pre ga anyone?

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

Chris Milligan — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 00:13:19 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

The chances of 4 litter mates all having it and all being female may this less likely to be DLE? There are also no other lesions and it hasn't got worse.

All good thoughts

Neil

[/quote]

you could try it on vit E or pred for a bit and see what happens if they don't want to biopsy it

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

Neil Wheadon — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 18:31:20 GMT

The chances of 4 litter mates all having it and all being female may this less likely to be DLE? There are also no other lesions and it hasn't got worse.

All good thoughts

Neil

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

Chris Milligan — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:51:24 GMT

Certainly could be parakeratosis - i've been caught out snap diagnosing this before though and the biopsy showed DLE which I think is more common than we realise.

I'd get a punch biopsy just to be safe as the age is a bit suspect

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

emma o'connor — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 07:46:34 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

There is a genetic test for HNPK

[/quote]

I didn't know that , good to know for next time, mind you it's been about 8 years since I last saw a case!

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

Rob Loxley — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 08:47:46 GMT

There is a genetic test for HNPK

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

Julie Innes — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 08:53:22 GMT

damn, everyone else beat me to it! I had a case like this years ago and tried every cream and lotion under the sun (or rather, the owner did!), but nothing worked 100%, and I think eventually we just managed with Vaseline! My client found creams on the market specific for this, although I'm not convinced any were the wonder drug they claimed to be!

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

David Mills — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 16:49:57 GMT

Also check facial nerve function.

Otherwise as above, except pemphigus.

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

Julian Earl — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 15:34:12 GMT

Pemphigus?? Meaning a biopsy is required.

HTH?

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

Anthony Todd — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 14:55:23 GMT

[quote user="Judith Archbold"]

I often recommend using Calendula cream ( made from marigolds) in these cases. Available from chemists off the shelf. It soaks in quickly before the dog can lick it off and seems to be more effective at softening the hyperkeratosis than E45 cream etc.

[/quote]

This just goes to show just how valuable this forum is, thanks

?? A diamond star is needed occasionally!

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

emma o'connor — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 14:53:46 GMT

Dermoscent Biobalm works nicely too

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

Judith Archbold — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 14:01:58 GMT

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

Judith Archbold — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 13:58:56 GMT

Attempt the certificate again Emma!

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

emma o'connor — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 13:44:14 GMT

I've only ever seen it in Labs as well. Did a case report on a couple of cases back when I was attempting a derm cert!

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

Braden Collins — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 13:30:13 GMT

I've only seen it in Labradors but not sure if other breeds cam be affected.

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

Neil Wheadon — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 13:27:07 GMT

Wow

Thank you, I promised the owner I'd somehow get a message to them so will do that

This just goes to show just how valuable this forum is, thanks

Is it just labradors or are any other breeds affected?

Neil

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

Braden Collins — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 13:21:40 GMT

I would be on hereditary nasal parakeratosis. It's a manage rather than cure condition. I tend to use a 50:50 propylene glycol:water mix applied 1-2 times daily.

RE: Crusty nose in a 2 year old labrador

emma o'connor — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 13:19:47 GMT

looks like hereditary nasal parakeratosis of the labrador to me. Diagnosis is usually by biopsy, and treatment limited to maintaining moisture to avoid cracking and secondary infections.