Cook-book medicine

RE: Cook-book medicine

Julian Earl — Mon, 07 May 2018 10:31:55 GMT

[quote user="Sarah Wheadon"]Not trying to be pedantic, but I glanced at this out of curiosity and it claims to treat rheumatism - a woolly term which doesn't equate to rheumatoid arthritis. So not the licensed treatment for RA. [/quote]

I think that is a very good point Sarah. Many lay-people do not understand what rheumatoid arthritis is and as a confirmed sufferer myself, one gets fed up of people saying, "Oh, yes, I've got a bit of rheumatism in my hands or kbnees" etc! Or words to that effect. RA is a crippling disease that renders one ill, nit is not just a disease of stiff joints. One can develop severe anaemia, eye, lung ledions amongst other things as well as swollen joints. Nor is it a sign of age. Most people develop it I their relative youth! My real point in this thread is that I doubt that there will be a licensed product for RA in animals. The gold-standard for humans are what are called Biological treatments that are extremely immuno-suppressive. My own fortnightly injection costs the NHS about £900 per month. The cascade is nouse for animals with that! As far as I can see, long-term steroids or azathioprine etc are the only options for a dog? With biologicals one is given stark warnings about not eating blue cheese, unpasteurised eggs or milk, care that salads are washed properly and so on. Listeria etc. in someone with impaired immunity would not be pleasant! Apart from a silly cost for dogs , then how could one prevent dogs scavenging etc when out on walks. ?

I have no idea if the green-leaf stuff works but I wouldn't hold my breath for human-equivalents of the biologicals!

RE: Cook-book medicine

Beats — Fri, 04 May 2018 10:40:10 GMT

[quote user="Andrea Tarr"]A product may be a veterinary medicine because it falls within the second part of the definition and is medicinal by function; that is, if it is used or given to animals with the aim
of restoring, correcting or modifying physiological functions by exerting a pharmacological, immunological or metabolic action, or of making a medical diagnosis.[/quote]

Quite. So Truscient (http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index.jsp?curl=pages/medicines/veterinary/medicines/002000/smops/Positive/vet_smop_000065.jsp&mid=WC0b01ac058008d7aa) would have trumped DBM Putty (http://vtbank.org/dbm-putty-now-available-to-order/) then?

What is your cook-book local anesthetic for dogs then? Has anyone told the anesthetists? They might not be happy.

RE: Cook-book medicine

Andrea Tarr — Fri, 04 May 2018 10:31:45 GMT

Veterinary medicinal product has a legal definition (VMR 2013) “any substance or combination of substances presented as having properties for treating or preventing disease in animals; or any substance or combination of substances that may be used
in, or administered to animals with a view either to restoring, correcting or modifying physiological
functions by exerting a pharmacological, immunological or metabolic action, or to making a medical diagnosis.”

A product may be a veterinary medicine because it falls within the first part of the definition and is medicinal by presentation; that is, the way it is presented gives the averagely
well-informed consumer the impression that it treats or prevents disease. This may be through product labels, leaflets or other literature, or adverts or oral recommendations
relating to the product issued before, during or after
the sale.

A product may be a veterinary medicine because it falls within the second part of the definition and is medicinal by function; that is, if it is used or given to animals with the aim
of restoring, correcting or modifying physiological functions by exerting a pharmacological, immunological or metabolic action, or of making a medical diagnosis.

RE: Cook-book medicine

Niall Taylor — Thu, 03 May 2018 11:57:55 GMT

I seem to recall the licence of right was withdrawn some time ago.

RE: Cook-book medicine

Andrea Tarr — Thu, 03 May 2018 10:07:49 GMT

Something I've wondered about is how many old veterinary products have a 'licence of right' because they've been around a long time. In human medicine, in the 1980s there was a Committee on the Review of Medicines which looked at old medicines and weeded out those with no proven efficacy.

Choosing a licensed medicine is not necessarily equivalent to making an evidence-based choice.

RE: Cook-book medicine

Sarah Wheadon — Sun, 22 Apr 2018 22:51:02 GMT

Not trying to be pedantic, but I glanced at this out of curiosity and it claims to treat rheumatism - a woolly term which doesn't equate to rheumatoid arthritis. So not the licensed treatment for RA.

RE: Cook-book medicine

Anthony Todd — Sat, 21 Apr 2018 16:17:00 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]That would be "Green Releaf tablets"[/quote]

I think this is a sort of piggy-back preparation based on the proven benefits of green-lipped mussels from New Zealand, unless I've got it wrong again??

https://www.vetwellscientific.co.uk/product/jointsure/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=kw-green-lipped-mussel-for-dogs

RE: Cook-book medicine

David Mills — Sat, 21 Apr 2018 12:35:18 GMT

[quote user="Beats"]

[quote user="Beats"]Anyone for the licensed treatment for rhematoid arthritis in the dog?[/quote]

That would be "Green Releaf tablets":

http://www.vmd.defra.gov.uk/ProductInformationDatabase/SPC_Documents/SPC_139167.DOC

It is the licensed treatment so I must use it ...

...but where is the body of evidence, or basis in sound scientific principles ...

...my circuits are frying in a perpetual loop of crazy...

...in absence of logic, Robo-Vet cannot operate...

...I relinquish control back to the humans.

[/quote]

Bit disingenuous.

It's not THE licensed product. Pred in all its guises is also licensed for a wide range of autoimmune and inflammatory conditions. I'm sure there are others.

RE: Cook-book medicine

Anthony Todd — Sat, 21 Apr 2018 11:07:48 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"] I have a meeting at VMD in a few weeks, might be worth asking the question to someone who knows the answer![/quote]

Yet we are required by law to use only licensed generics!

How on earth can these two situations be justified together?

One with absolutely no evidence of anything, the other used safely and effectively for 40 odd years......

RE: Cook-book medicine

Iain Richards — Sat, 21 Apr 2018 08:12:21 GMT

Actually, that's a fair question Beats (how I hate using these forum names). Why is it described as a veterinary medical product? I thought there was some distinction. Something to look into when it's either dark or raining I feel. It will probably be because veterinary as an adjective means relating to animals. I have a meeting at VMD in a few weeks, might be worth asking the question to someone who knows the answer!

RE: Cook-book medicine

Liz Barton — Fri, 20 Apr 2018 23:30:09 GMT

Interesting the SPC for raspberry leaf tea in dogs and cats includes no contraindications and states normal use during pregnancy. As it's effects are based around increasing uterine contractility, women are advised not to start taking it before 32 weeks of pregnancy due to the potential risk of inducing premature labour.

How and why are these licences granted one wonders?

RE: Cook-book medicine

Niall Taylor — Fri, 20 Apr 2018 21:43:54 GMT

[quote user="Beats"]If not then she can consider this veterinary medicinal product licensed for that very indication:[/quote]

Blimey - I had no idea herbal preps were included in the cascade, never occured to me they would be. I naively assumed some proper evidence might be required. Where did you find this stuff?

Niall

RE: Cook-book medicine

Beats — Fri, 20 Apr 2018 21:22:49 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]

[quote user="Beats"]And what do you give a queen to prevent pseudo-pregnancy these days?[/quote]

Dunno - thought she'd would be well menopausal by now.

[/quote]

If not then she can consider this veterinary medicinal product licensed for that very indication:

http://www.vmd.defra.gov.uk/ProductInformationDatabase/SPC_Documents/SPC_128970.DOC

RE: Cook-book medicine

Beats — Fri, 20 Apr 2018 21:18:51 GMT

[quote user="Beats"]Anyone for the licensed treatment for rhematoid arthritis in the dog?[/quote]

That would be "Green Releaf tablets":

http://www.vmd.defra.gov.uk/ProductInformationDatabase/SPC_Documents/SPC_139167.DOC

It is the licensed treatment so I must use it ...

...but where is the body of evidence, or basis in sound scientific principles ...

...my circuits are frying in a perpetual loop of crazy...

...in absence of logic, Robo-Vet cannot operate...

...I relinquish control back to the humans.

RE: Cook-book medicine

bob lehner — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 17:22:27 GMT

[quote user="Beats"]And what do you give a queen to prevent pseudo-pregnancy these days?[/quote]

Dunno - thought she'd would be well menopausal by now.

RE: Cook-book medicine

Beats — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 15:57:04 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Licensing is there for a reason![/quote]

Sure. And one of those reasons is so we can play a fun trivia game of cascade-trumps ;-)

Anyone found the licensed veterinary medicinal product to relieve symptoms of rhematoid arthritis in dogs yet?

Would anyone use it just because of the license?

RE: Cook-book medicine

Anthony Todd — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 13:40:45 GMT

Licensing is there for a reason!