Persistently scooting/licking

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Anthony Todd — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 22:51:05 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] I've seen plenty of dogs scoot with no AG problems pre and post removal.[/quote]

I never have, and all of them stopped after emptying and Panolog infusion, but sometimes repeated if scooting reoccurred and the A/G content was always abnormal/ infected ie thin and purulent.

We never had to remove A/Gs.

The urinary tract/vulva may be a red-herring or separate??

Or,as you say, a habit??

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Anthony Todd — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 22:45:19 GMT

Might pay to check the area PR in case there is any other problem, [still functioning AG remnant?] also for a retained nylon suture causing irritation???

You say there is no other sign of atopy anywhere?? Feet, face, ears ??

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Nicola Cole — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 17:44:59 GMT

Many thanks for all the feedback.

I’m calling the owner tomorrow-I asked them to monitor the dog closely for a few days (as the history was a little confused) to see whether vulval licking was predominant sign or scooting (and what they actually mean by that), also to smell wet patches to see whether could be leaking urine-so I’ll update this once I’ve spoken to them.

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 16:27:37 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]"scooting" has always been so specifically A/G related [IMHO][/quote]As you say it is your opinion. I've seen plenty of dogs scoot with no AG problems pre and post removal. Anything that cause perineal irritation will cause the dog to scoot. One of my nurses had an issue with her Staffies and never got to the ahem...bottom of it and it just seemed to be a habit. In the OP's case there is a distinct link to the urinary tract/vulva not the anal glands - so much for scooting being 'specifically' AG related.

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Julie Innes — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 10:18:35 GMT

I reckon I see allergic dogs with itchy anal glands even though the glands themselves seem ok. When I've questioned the owners most of these dogs also have itchy ears/ feet (which for some reason bothers the owner less than the scooting...)

One of my finest moments was discussing possible dietary allergies as a reason for the dogs scooting. Owner pipes up "That's like me! If I eat eggs I get an itchy arse!" TMI!!!

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Anthony Todd — Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:09:23 GMT

If nothing works just make sure the dog isn't being rewarded for "scooting".

Stupid, geriatric, and definitely one star, but we saw a dog in NZ that limped [front left] if you shouted at it.......

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Bob Russell — Fri, 23 Feb 2018 10:39:38 GMT

Scooting is always anal sac disease until it proved not to be!

I find that a lot of anal sac problem dogs are also atopic. Similarly but more so those with chronic ear problems.

I find 'proving' atopy to be nearly impossible but common to suspect (probably rightly).

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Anthony Todd — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 23:17:56 GMT

[quote user="Edward Jones"]so why not on the arse[/quote]

I'll be condemned for turbo-posting again but "scooting" has always been so specifically A/G related [IMHO] and atopy, or any allergic skin disease usually more multicentric .

I was always so suspicious if scooting continued that the A/Gs were still involved in some way particularly as sometimes removal wasn't complete.

I suppose there's always a first for anything though.

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Anthony Todd — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 23:10:04 GMT

[quote user="Beats"]Any more details? [/quote]

Should work, as it is an oestrogen [had to look it up]. May find a very low weekly dose is enough so try and get the minimum dose that's effective at the longest interval. obviously consider plastic surgery if conformation is the root cause.

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Edward Jones — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 22:32:53 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

I say one-star anonymosity, have you ever diagnosed "atopy" but only peri-anally, if you have show me some corroboration please.

[/quote]

As a frequent commenter myself I never one star, almost all comments have value, especially those I disagree with.

Atopy is a diagnosis of exclusion so always difficult to prove. I’ve gone years without considering atopy as a diagnosis for perianal irritation, but atopy can present as specifically localised inflammations in other regions, so why not on the arse?

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Beats — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:58:46 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]I used to give "infantile vulva" post spay a course of Stilboestrol which seemed to resolve them; very low dose rate is enough.[/quote]

Any more details? If this works that could be most useful (for the odd case I see anyway). Never thought of it before. Can you get away with "extra" dose of incurin (which I conveniently already have on shelf) as they sometimes get a big vulva on clinical doses? Any more/less risky than other estrogens if you can?

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Anthony Todd — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:40:12 GMT

I say one-star anonymosity, have you ever diagnosed "atopy" but only peri-anally, if you have show me some corroboration please.

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Anthony Todd — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 15:59:10 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]Patients with no anal sacs surely can't scoot because of their non-existent anal sacs?[/quote]

Sorry,I see what you mean, and you're right of course, but I wouldn't have removed the AGs without a positive packing and, in the vast majority of cases, [when Panalog was available] I don't think the practice ever had to remove any AGs. I never did.

PS [Surely "atopy" has to be sited in more places, and hardly ever, if ever, only the perineum??]

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Rob Loxley — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 15:51:56 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="robloxley"]We've dogs who had had their anal sacs removed finally to be diagnosed with atopy[/quote]

Tested, as I described to confirm or just a guess??

[/quote]

Patients with no anal sacs surely can't scoot because of their non-existent anal sacs?

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Anthony Todd — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 15:48:00 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]We've dogs who had had their anal sacs removed finally to be diagnosed with atopy[/quote]

Tested, as I described to confirm or just a guess??

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Rob Loxley — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 15:14:38 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Scooting is pretty well conclusively AG related[/quote]

Is it? We've dogs who had had their anal sacs removed finally to be diagnosed with atopy

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Anthony Todd — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 09:59:27 GMT

[quote user="Nicola M"]AGs fine today[/quote]

What was the AG content like? Scooting is pretty well conclusively AG related; licking vulva not?

A trial A/G packing with a steroid +- A/Bs topical is diagnostic.

I used to give "infantile vulva" post spay a course of Stilboestrol which seemed to resolve them; very low dose rate is enough.

They really do come on"heat" though, so warn the owner.

Culture and sensitivity will only discover secondary commensals taking advantage of the disturbed environment.

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Edward Jones — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 09:02:06 GMT

Perhaps unlikely, but it's worth considering atopy as a primary cause of any skin irritation.

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Stephen Courtney — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:45 GMT

A good ultrasonographer should pick up ectopic ureters easily, and given the age of the dog, the quicker this is ruled in or out the better - you don't want to diagnose this after the kidneys are wrecked by ascending infections

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:44:09 GMT

[quote user="Nicola M"]But was wondering whether could be leaking drips of urine and whether could be looking at ectopic ureter.[/quote]That would be top of my list of differentials. Also instead of hit or miss treatment re ?? fungal infection, perhaps start with some swabs for culture.

RE: Persistently scooting/licking

Elisabeth Knappett — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 23:12:02 GMT

I would also consider USMI especially if wet after lying and vulval irritation mainly.