Anyone do canine surgical insemination in the Midlands?

RE: Anyone do canine surgical insemination in the Midlands?

bob lehner — Sun, 11 Feb 2018 10:31:06 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]I am more than happy to explain how to inseminate if you want to do it. [/quote]

Hmm - slightly unfortunate turn of phrase - particularly in the current moral climate...?

RE: Anyone do canine surgical insemination in the Midlands?

Christina Smith — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 21:29:49 GMT

We are not her to judge !!!!

RE: Anyone do canine surgical insemination in the Midlands?

Dinu Catilina — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 17:55:26 GMT

We are based in Chesterfield Derbyshire as you mentioned Midlands. I am more than happy to explain how to inseminate if you want to do it.

RE: Anyone do canine surgical insemination in the Midlands?

Lesley Strong — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 16:22:02 GMT

Depending on where u are try Animal Breed Care. Based in east Scotland. Good success with AI by endoscopy via the cervix as far as i know but need lots of pre breeding bloods etc to increase chance of success

RE: Anyone do canine surgical insemination in the Midlands?

Aisling McGrath — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 12:42:18 GMT

so in Summary, Do not perform surgical AI, shouldn't be needed, should try other alternatives first, and ethical issues. Consider P4 testing to get timing better for natural mating. Finally if natural mating def not an option, then either transvaginal or transcervical AI. Just need to find someone to do the AI if needed. Will research suggestions already made. Thank you all, have learnt a lot from this short discussion!

RE: Anyone do canine surgical insemination in the Midlands?

Edward Jones — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 10:26:22 GMT

If a dog and a bitch can't be relied upon to get on with it themselves then for me there's a good take-home message!

RE: Anyone do canine surgical insemination in the Midlands?

Chris Milligan — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 04:14:23 GMT

[quote user="Aisling McGrath"]I had not thought of all these ethical issues...[/quote]

I'd advise looking into this a lot more then - there are strong legal and ethical issues with this in th UK and I remember a talk from the VDS describing this as a grey area; there's a lot that can come back to haunt you

RE: Anyone do canine surgical insemination in the Midlands?

bevs2251 — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 02:12:33 GMT

Hello from Australia. Did a couple of these surgical semen implantations about 10 years ago on GreyHounds (AI set-up by a GH vet. That's all they did here). Wasn't too keen on the idea. Lots of excess stock GreyHounds here are sent to Macau to live in terrible conditions. Had to do smallest incision possible and it was quite tricky to locate the uterus + try to use only 1 packet of suture material (ended up using 2 each time). Relatively simple procedure but does require a GA.

Any need to breed more animals ?? Enough euthanased daily for lack of homes. Working dogs ?

RE: Anyone do canine surgical insemination in the Midlands?

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 01:06:01 GMT

https://youtu.be/M85U1nI1IY8

RE: Anyone do canine surgical insemination in the Midlands?

Dinu Catilina — Fri, 09 Feb 2018 19:49:00 GMT

We did a couple of surgical inseminations but ideally there is not need for it. TCI will be just as good with much less risk to the bitch. The reason why surgical is preferred in some places to TCI is mainly because it is easier to do.

TCI is done without sedation either with a Norwegian catheter or endoscopically. I always use the endoscope, I never touched a Norwegian catheter and I have no idea how to use it.

If they don't want to mate it's certainly not because they grew up together,

I would:

1. Make sure they breed them at the right time which is 2-3 days post ovulation. Do progesterone tests

2.Check the bitch to make sure she can be mated as some can be very narrow

3. Attempt vaginal insemination. If the bitch kicks the catheter out then the technique should be revised.

If vaginal insemination can't be performed then TCI is even less likely. Sometimes it takes me 5 minutes sometimes 30. The bitch must stay very still.

It is difficult to justify surgical insemination just for the sake of having pups.

RE: Anyone do canine surgical insemination in the Midlands?

Aisling McGrath — Fri, 09 Feb 2018 17:23:06 GMT

I had not thought of all these ethical issues...

When you talk about transcervical insemination, is this usually just a conscious thing? Or usually done via endoscopy?

Also the owner has asked me to do whatever needs doing, even though I have no experience in this field, hence why I am trying to send him elsewhere!

RE: Anyone do canine surgical insemination in the Midlands?

Rob Loxley — Fri, 09 Feb 2018 16:59:54 GMT

Could you not do endoscopic transcervical AI rather than going down the surgical route?

RE: Anyone do canine surgical insemination in the Midlands?

Rob Davis — Fri, 09 Feb 2018 16:39:09 GMT

Angelika von Heimendahl is based in Cambridge if that helps.

I have to confess that personally I am not comfortable with the concept of surgical AI....

RE: Anyone do canine surgical insemination in the Midlands?

Sally Everitt — Fri, 09 Feb 2018 16:38:33 GMT

Hi Aisling,

Before you get involved in this you might want to take a look at the advice in the RCVS Guidance on miscellaneous procedures

Canine surgical artificial insemination

27.29 Surgical Artificial Insemination (AI) carries many disadvantages for the bitch and is unlikely to be carried out in the best interests of any particular dog, but a veterinary surgeon may carry out surgical AI:

in the rare circumstances where Transcervical Insemination (TCI) has been demonstrated not to be a practical option

AND

the invasive nature of surgical AI is justified* and accompanied by an appropriate regime of post-operative pain relief.

* Veterinary surgeons are advised that on the information available to the Advisory Committee, surgical AI is justified only for exceptional reasons, for example, the incorporation of new genetic traits into a line or breed when the sire is not easily available or unable to mate naturally for reasons other than inherited disease.

27.30 When carrying out surgical AI, a veterinary surgeon should record in the bitch’s clinical records why TCI is not a practical option and the justification for the invasive procedure.

https://www.rcvs.org.uk/setting-standards/advice-and-guidance/code-of-professional-conduct-for-veterinary-surgeons/supporting-guidance/miscellaneous/

Sally

RE: Anyone do canine surgical insemination in the Midlands?

Sally Everitt — Fri, 09 Feb 2018 16:37:43 GMT

Hi Aisling,

Before you get involved in this you might want to take a look at the advice in the RCVS Guidance on miscellaneous procedures

Canine surgical artificial insemination

in the rare circumstances where Transcervical Insemination (TCI) has been demonstrated not to be a practical option

AND

the invasive nature of surgical AI is justified* and accompanied by an appropriate regime of post-operative pain relief.

27.30 When carrying out surgical AI, a veterinary surgeon should record in the bitch’s clinical records why TCI is not a practical option and the justification for the invasive procedure.

https://www.rcvs.org.uk/setting-standards/advice-and-guidance/code-of-professional-conduct-for-veterinary-surgeons/supporting-guidance/miscellaneous/

Sally