Hearing aid battery

RE: Hearing aid battery

Chris Milligan — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 05:36:20 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]So the moral is: don't discount ingestion of small amounts of potentially toxic foodstuff.[/quote]

So much this! I am often surprised when I do end up taking bloodwork even 24 hrs after a chocolate toxicity how often the patients have really significant elevations of liver enzymes even if they are clinically well and, if there is a baseline bloodwork from previous to compare it back to how rapidly the damage is done. Raisins and grapes? Might as well throw a dart blindfolded at a list of potential outcomes - it's very difficult to predict.

RE: Hearing aid battery

Claire Godfrey — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 15:57:48 GMT

Yes but it has been highlighted so much, that gut reaction would be to advise removal and not risk battery leakage/charge. So has been very interesting to consider the VPIS reaction.

RE: Hearing aid battery

Bob Russell — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 15:24:22 GMT

But most of these horror stories relate to batteries lodging in the oesophagus.

RE: Hearing aid battery

Claire Godfrey — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 14:14:38 GMT

Batteries being swallowed by children is one of the hot topics for parents at the moment. All the childcare centres and health visitors are quite hot on making sure you are aware of the dangers.

This is from Great Ormond Street

http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/medical-information/button-batteries-using-them-safely

Considering this I am surprised removal is not necessarily needed. It has been so drummed into parents that I would have advised removal for the dog.

Out of interest how would you know it hadn't been damaged??

RE: Hearing aid battery

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 13:56:04 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"] ^^^^^^ W ⚓ [/quote]This is possibly the most pathetic and cowardly post ever. Insulting someone while remaining anonymous. I can only conclude whoever you are, you are yourself what you called John and gave yourself 5 stars - I can't imagine anyone else would.

RE: Hearing aid battery

Bob Russell — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 11:40:15 GMT

Not criticising the vet's decision but based on the VPIS advice believe the risk of surgery was greater than the risk of monitoring.

The VetsNow video does show what damage a battery could do if stuck. If sitting in a pile of dogs food it might create a bit of a hotspot!

Once in the stomach I would monitor regularly to check it continued to move. Surgery if not.

You are only right once the battery has 'left the body'!

RE: Hearing aid battery

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 00:05:00 GMT

Hence I wouldn't leave one in my own dog!

RE: Hearing aid battery

Bibs — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 00:03:02 GMT

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-29610570

Children have died from swallowing button batteries so it seems reasonable to be concerned about leaving one in a dog. I dont think I'd judge the vet who removed the battery too harshly considering what's been in the press about them in recent years. It's interesting that the VPIS apparently are not too concerned about leaving them. Maybe it's because they don't tend to sit in the oesophagus of a dog.

RE: Hearing aid battery

Rach — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 22:15:23 GMT

[quote user="rhmrcvs"]

I dont think you're correct here.

One of my children swallowed a 5 pence piece , was in her stomach on xray. The medics in a and e were getting very worked up about it , they needed me to be 100 % certain it was a coin not a battery. Coins they were happy to leave , wanted me to monitor the other end until it came out , for a £1 coin maybe , not for 5p !

[/quote]

the nurses in my last job were ingenious when monitoring for the passage of a fish hook once - they x-rayed the filled poo bags!

RE: Hearing aid battery

rhmrcvs — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 19:34:55 GMT

I dont think you're correct here.

RE: Hearing aid battery

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 13:49:26 GMT

[quote user="John Wessels"]

I am criticising the video and what it tries to convey. Scaremongering. Maybe the chocolate and raisin scaremongering is not providing the revenue anymore, let's come up with another one: button batteries are dangerous for your sausages.

my additional comments are facts, not opinion.

[/quote]

So you think writing:

what a lot of tosh! only thing 'Vets Now' are good at is scaremongering and emptying your wallet..

is a professional way to behave?

RE: Hearing aid battery

An On MRCVS — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 12:39:38 GMT

[quote user="John Wessels"]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

John Wessels should not have put that comment. Unacceptable to criticise another practice in that way, and opening the doors for similar comments from less informed idiots people.

[/quote]

my additional comments are facts, not opinion.

[/quote]

^^^^^^ W ⚓

RE: Hearing aid battery

John Wessels — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 12:06:20 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

John Wessels should not have put that comment. Unacceptable to criticise another practice in that way, and opening the doors for similar comments from less informed idiots people.

[/quote]

my additional comments are facts, not opinion.

RE: Hearing aid battery

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 19:00:45 GMT

John Wessels should not have put that comment. Unacceptable to criticise another practice in that way, and opening the doors for similar comments from less informed idiots people.

RE: Hearing aid battery

Edward Jones — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 17:57:31 GMT

[quote user="Emily Rainbow"]

This video came up re: batterys from VetsNow...

https://www.facebook.com/VetsNow/videos/1578962018855568/

[/quote]

Just don't read the comments!

RE: Hearing aid battery

Emily Rainbow — Sat, 30 Dec 2017 19:39:48 GMT

This video came up re: batterys from VetsNow...

https://www.facebook.com/VetsNow/videos/1578962018855568/

RE: Hearing aid battery

Rob Davis — Sat, 30 Dec 2017 14:33:57 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]I often find it difficult to know what to do about grape/raisin ingestion, I agree that a tiny amount probably isn't worth worrying about, but I have seen a dog present in acute renal failure 2 days after eating a bunch of grapes, despite immediate treatment it became anuric and was euthanased. I will usually induce emesis if they've eaten them recently, and will recommend to owners that we admit for fluids if it is too long after ingestion to induce emesis.[/quote]

Interesting. I've never knowingly seen a case of grape/raisin toxicity in 20 years and have seen many such ingestions (including my own dog which ate the top layer of our wedding cake...). I have generally been very sceptical about the necessity to treat these and am usually happy to leave them as long as I have explained my reasoning to the owner. I will induce emesis if they want to play it safe, but would not do so in my own dog and will tell people this. Several of my colleagues take more involved approach.

What do others do with these?

RE: Hearing aid battery

Thomas Johnson — Sat, 30 Dec 2017 12:18:56 GMT

I often find it difficult to know what to do about grape/raisin ingestion, I agree that a tiny amount probably isn't worth worrying about, but I have seen a dog present in acute renal failure 2 days after eating a bunch of grapes, despite immediate treatment it became anuric and was euthanased. I will usually induce emesis if they've eaten them recently, and will recommend to owners that we admit for fluids if it is too long after ingestion to induce emesis.

RE: Hearing aid battery

Bob Russell — Sat, 30 Dec 2017 10:00:09 GMT

I would consider a gastrotomy with a full stomach to be a fairly high risk procedure.

The battery was tiny.

The dog is fine thankfully and is equipped with a muzzle for higher risk situations.

I still might have been tempted to induce vomiting as the battery was one of the tiny hearing aid ones but probably would have let nature take its course.

Interesting discussion shows there is no absolute right or wrong!

RE: Hearing aid battery

Martin Atkinson — Sat, 30 Dec 2017 09:31:34 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]Various posts on vet Facebook pages with vets panicking because their dog ate a 1/100 of a mince pie and should they induce vomiting. The risk from grapes or raisins to my mind is very small and I'd not worry. I only make dogs sick with chocolate if they've eaten a likely toxic dose.[/quote]Not had a (known) grape/raisins toxicity but I've seen a chocolate poisoning case in a Cocker that had eaten just one square of cooking chocolate. When it first presented we didn't even have this information but on later investigation it transpired the owner habitually fed it small amounts, each of which on its own would have caused no problem, so I believed there was an accumulative effect. Also seen a small dog which had near fatal anaemia from eating two vegetable samosas and was only save by a transfusion from it's sister.

So the moral is: don't discount ingestion of small amounts of potentially toxic foodstuff.

RE: Hearing aid battery

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 23:23:24 GMT

It's interesting that I'd remove one from my own dog (either surgically or endoscopically). Various posts on vet Facebook pages with vets panicking because their dog ate a 1/100 of a mince pie and should they induce vomiting. The risk from grapes or raisins to my mind is very small and I'd not worry. I only make dogs sick with chocolate if they've eaten a likely toxic dose.

If you look at the articles these are clearly a real risk.

RE: Hearing aid battery

Chris Milligan — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 19:15:56 GMT

It's controversial; if you induce vomiting and the battery is leaking you send battery acid up the oesophagus and potentially aspirate it. If you let it go through there's a (small) risk of the battery leaking in the GIT. If you operate you might have trouble finding it.

If the battery is older then there's more of an argument for being proactive. Depending on where it is endoscopy may be the best all-round choice providing it can be removed slickly.

There is some evidence of electrical injury to the oesophageal and fundic wall depending on how long it sits there. Corrosion takes quite a while, and usually they'll go through before any significant damage - canine stomach pH is higher than humans unless they're eating. We currently recommend letting it go through, get the patient on a smorgasbord of GI protectants and see what happens.

RE: Hearing aid battery

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 14:06:32 GMT

OK I concede that there is some damage due to the effects of battery discharge. This article throws a lot more light on the mode of action. Not sure about the experiment involving suspension in dog's oesophagus though!!

RE: Hearing aid battery

Sammy82 — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 12:51:02 GMT

I have found this human flow chart suggesting that batteries in the oesophagus must be removed urgently as the can cause severe chemical (alkaline) burns, as Edward said. They rarely leak but the current will cause water to split and serious damage can occur in under 2 hours. https://www.poison.org/battery/guideline

RE: Hearing aid battery

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 11:26:55 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]I am not particularly having a pop at any particular vet or decision to treat in a particular way. I was not there.[/quote]Why don't you request copies of the X-rays. As the dog's normal vet you are entitled to them especially as this vet saw the patient when he/she should have redirected it to your OOH provider and should technically requested the history before superseding albeit I know this was impractical.

[quote user="Edward Jones"] I have heard that a battery can cause soft tissue necrosis due to the electrical current flowing through the short-circuit.[/quote]Really?! The maximum voltage of these is 1.5 V, that is not going to cause any tissue damage. I think the major issue is ischaemic necrosis due to pressure on the oesophageal wall as with any obstructive FB.