Money!!!!

RE: Money!!!!

Lucy Fleming — Thu, 19 Oct 2017 13:06:18 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]Slightly off topic (not exotics!) but I had a client in yesterday whose dog had been itchy since being groomed (it had fleas), but "how much is this going to cost, as I've no money?" My answer: less than it cost to get her groomed, I'm guessing....[/quote]

That's on a par with "but I've just spent all this money on flea stuff, and now you want me to buy more?"
Said as though I had either a) received all the money that they had spent at Pets r' us directly into my own bank account or b) physically forced them to buy 'all natural pesticide free cr*p just for the LOLs.

RE: Money!!!!

Julie Innes — Thu, 19 Oct 2017 09:16:27 GMT

Slightly off topic (not exotics!) but I had a client in yesterday whose dog had been itchy since being groomed (it had fleas), but "how much is this going to cost, as I've no money?" My answer: less than it cost to get her groomed, I'm guessing....

RE: Money!!!!

Lucy Fleming — Wed, 18 Oct 2017 16:15:09 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Had a client in today pleading poverty wanting a charity cat neutering while bearing a very complex, sophisticated tattoo on her arm[/quote]

Frustrating, but unless it's clearly very new I try not to worry about where they spent their money in the past. Seeing a client with a new one in memory of the pet they had put down for a condition that probably could have been treated for what they spent on said tattoo and individual cremation, less sympathetic. Sky, cigarettes, and starbucks/costa every day probably put as significant a dent in the cash flow, so I try not to get too judgemental based on appearance alone.

RE: Money!!!!

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 18 Oct 2017 16:00:14 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]

[quote user="Sheryl Calway"]i must now find out how much a tatoo is for comparative purposes!![/quote]

Depends on the artist, but my little one was more than a consultation with an exotic vet, and my bigger one was more than a blood test...

[/quote]Had a client in today pleading poverty wanting a charity cat neutering while bearing a very complex, sophisticated tattoo on her arm. I know how much they cost as my younger daughter has quite a few but she is in a rock band so its part of the image and she's backed by the bank of Dad - it doesn't pay for the tattoos but for all other things she can't afford because she spent her money on tattoos, guitars and amps, no hang on a minute I pay for those as well!!

RE: Money!!!!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 18 Oct 2017 15:15:35 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]I refuse to wing clip[/quote]

Good for you.

I give 'em the spiel, but I'm sure they all go off and get someone else to do it.

RE: Money!!!!

Harriet Nicholson — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 12:29:30 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

[quote user="Sheryl Calway"]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"] I read them the riot act about how terrapins should be kept, booked a repeat check-up 1 week later....never to see them again. [/quote]

I used to regularly chase up my re-check no-shows, but it got too depressing and pointless...un-answered phonecalls and emails asking them to contact me with an update etc...but it does bother me knowing they are out there....sufferring...I feel we should be doing more for these animals, but short of having an rspca inspector shadow me on my exotic clinic days, ready to complete the necessary paperwork...I don't know what else can be done.....

[/quote]

Ban them from being kept without a licence. Or just ban the keeping of 99% or species out there.

You'll never get exotics vets supporting such an eminently sensible move though.

[/quote]

I for one would love to ban the keeping of most reptiles and birds, and I love treating them but the owners just don't know and dont even want to know what they are doing is wrong.... so frustrating

RE: Money!!!!

Mark Rowland — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 09:26:38 GMT

Some compatibility issues that are being sorted. I'll let you know when it's up again. Still on the google store

RE: Money!!!!

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 08:05:08 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

Ban them from being kept without a licence. Or just ban the keeping of 99% or species out there.

You'll never get exotics vets supporting such an eminently sensible move though.

[/quote]

Would make me very happy actually. I qualified wanting to be a zoo vet. I now can't bear walking into a zoo and seeing all those wonderful animals kept in cages. Impressive cages...but cages nonetheless. Birds should never be kept in cages. I refuse to wing clip...on the basis that you wouldn't hobble a dog simply to stop it running away.

As long as these creatures are kept, and mistreated, I will continue to treat and advise. But I'd be the first to cheer if they stopped being kept as pets.

RE: Money!!!!

grumpyoldman — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 01:22:05 GMT

I did a GPCert(ExAP) in 2012 and can confirm that it was the worst 5k I ever spent on CPD and the least financially rewarding. The notable exceptions were the higher value Parrots and Raptors. We tried well bird and well pet clinics and did some FOC zoo work for a while. Its interesting but not a business up here at least .could be different in the South east of course. You will also be driven insane by practice hopping, bad denting guinea pig nutters with "addictive forumitis" until you develop a system to weed them out.

RE: Money!!!!

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 23:21:12 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"] exotics vets[/quote]

Are they the ones who have to go home after Brexit?

RE: Money!!!!

David Mills — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 23:18:47 GMT

[quote user="Sheryl Calway"]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"] I read them the riot act about how terrapins should be kept, booked a repeat check-up 1 week later....never to see them again. [/quote]

[/quote]

Ban them from being kept without a licence. Or just ban the keeping of 99% or species out there.

You'll never get exotics vets supporting such an eminently sensible move though.

RE: Money!!!!

Sheryl Calway — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 22:39:22 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="Sheryl Calway"]I feel like I'm jumping now on a long escaped bandwagon...but I'm new to the game as already said....what is this analgesics chart and is it like gold-dust or can it be glimpsed by mere exotics mortals such as myself?[/quote]

http://www.exotic-cpd.co.uk/services/downloads

[/quote]

Awww, thanks Mark...it feels like Christmas getting all this info!

Have just tried to buy your app too from link on your website...but says "not available on uk sites"...and doesn't come up on App Store direct search...am I just being dim..??..!!

RE: Money!!!!

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 22:20:22 GMT

http://www.exotic-cpd.co.uk/services/downloads

RE: Money!!!!

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 22:19:47 GMT

[quote user="Sheryl Calway"]...but it does bother me knowing they are out there....sufferring...[/quote]

You mean you didn't fix them in one appointment, without the need for any diagnostics or medication? You must be a rubbish vet!

RE: Money!!!!

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 22:17:41 GMT

[quote user="Sheryl Calway"]..I feel we should be doing more for these animals, [/quote]

I have tried. I contacted the local council licensing officer a few years ago, offering free CPD or visits to local pet shops, to run alongside her licensing visits. I thought I could maybe attack the poor knowledge at source. She said she'd get back to me after discussing it at the next departmental meeting. Still waiting.... I still think it is ridiculous that pet shop licenses are handed out by people with zero animal care qualification. (Councils can choose whether they want veterinary advice...most, it seems, don't.)

All you can do is keep putting the correct information out there. Things are getting better. Slowly.

RE: Money!!!!

Sheryl Calway — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 21:52:02 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"] I read them the riot act about how terrapins should be kept, booked a repeat check-up 1 week later....never to see them again. [/quote]

RE: Money!!!!

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 21:43:12 GMT

[quote user="Sheryl Calway"]I think there may be an issue with inbreeding in the North (and I'm not just thinking of the pets...)....definite bits of common sense missing....I do wonder how some clients manage to keep themselves and their kids alive from one day to the next when they bring their pets in the conditions they do.[/quote]

so true!

My 'best' (worst) was 2 terrapins kept in a glass goldfish bowl full if water. They were completely green with algae with fluffy bits of white fungus gently flowing from all over the skin. How they survived for the 6 months since purchase I know not. I read them the riot act about how terrapins should be kept, booked a repeat check-up 1 week later....never to see them again.

RE: Money!!!!

Sheryl Calway — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 20:52:18 GMT

I feel like I'm jumping now on a long escaped bandwagon...but I'm new to the game as already said....what is this analgesics chart and is it like gold-dust or can it be glimpsed by mere exotics mortals such as myself?

Gillian - I feel the pain of those patients....that could have been my caseload last week too. I think there may be an issue with inbreeding in the North (and I'm not just thinking of the pets...)....definite bits of common sense missing....I do wonder how some clients manage to keep themselves and their kids alive from one day to the next when they bring their pets in the conditions they do.

On a serious note though...I've tried the subtle hints in the waiting room...the "could your reptile just be surviving ..not thriving" type questions on a poster...besides lots of beautifully laminated adverts for lighting, supplementation products etc. But yet still the dessert species arrive, with owners who give a blank look when I ask about UV provision...and the penny doesn't drop when I nod towards the drizzly grey sun-less Lancashire skyline...these are all surely welfare cases and the animal is not being kept in wild-like recreation. Where do we draw the line....??

Lucy...brilliant insight. I think I will put up a pricing chart on my wall equating all the usual treatment options priced in tattoos and piercing sizes. Would it need to be a particularly tricky body part to enable an X-ray for MBD??!!!!!!!

RE: Money!!!!

Clive Ansell — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 20:08:50 GMT

Thanks Mark

RE: Money!!!!

Mark Rowland — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 17:08:12 GMT

G pigs 0.3mg/kg q8

chin 0.3-0.5 mg/kg q8

rabbits 0.3-0.5mg/kg q8

iv sc im

works well. Recently started using it thanks to a new vet (it goes on Judah) :-)

RE: Money!!!!

Lucy Fleming — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 17:06:23 GMT

[quote user="Sheryl Calway"]i must now find out how much a tatoo is for comparative purposes!![/quote]

Depends on the artist, but my little one was more than a consultation with an exotic vet, and my bigger one was more than a blood test...

RE: Money!!!!

Clive Ansell — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 16:56:24 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]I did a chart for analgesics for exotics that had massive take up especially with nurses at cpd (rightly or wrongly nurses tend to think about this more).[/quote]

Yes, very useful is that there chart, and copies now adorn at least 5 prep rooms around the country. As you say, nurses love it.

Do you have any advice/thoughts on the use of Methadone? particularly in rabbits for speys etc. Given it so useful in cats and dogs.

RE: Money!!!!

Gareth C. — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 16:47:37 GMT

we see a lot of tortoises and they generally are kept by people willing to pay to treat them.

whilst we are sharing exotics stories my most depressing / frustrating was a beautiful sulcata tortoise that had eaten well every day of its life (about 6yo) and then stopped so the owners brought it in 3 months later. They were prepared to pay for work up but it was too late. client education is as important as willingness to pay.

RE: Money!!!!

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:44:23 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"] I charge the same as for dogs and cats and happily euthanise far less than 75% of reptiles.[/quote]

We charge more for reptile and bird consultations as they take twice as long!

I was having a moan when I said 75% ... It probably isn't so high. However, it is still a very high percentage. As you say, there are excellent clients out there who will let you do your job properly. But, in my experience up here in the frozen north (near the OP) they are still in the minority. As you've said, the reputation of the practice does spread and every vet in the district will be happy to send exotics to you.

To illustrate my post..3 of my cases in last week:

- beardie presented with half of tail crispy and smelly, no vent tone and unable to move back legs. Attempted treatment (tail amputation etc) but paralysis progressing over following week. PTS

-falcon presented with likely aspergillosis. Owner declined GA for bloods, x-rays, endoscopy etc...just wants to put it on voraconazole.

-beardie presented with right hind leg approx 3x size of the left, stinky, green/black colour and oozing blood from ventral thigh. Apparently 'fell' some time before .. probably a few months ago. Took bloods...serum bright green. Lots of problems. PTS.

I now do see lots of lovely owners with well kept exotics...thank goodness!!! But as Mark said, it takes time to build up this client base. Certainly, don't encourage the problems by undercharging!

RE: Money!!!!

Neil Wheadon — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:37:05 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]Such is our reputation now that all the local vets don't bother seeing lots of these animals and send them straight to us. The good reptile pet shops (and yes there are some) send us lots too.[/quote]

I can vouch for this

John Chitty (president of something this year - sorry John) was in my year and is based in Andover. He sees referrals and first opinion and anything unusual (not a cat/dog!) in the Andover area gets sent to him. He also has a consultation for phone advise I think

http://antonvets.co.uk/exotics/

Neil