Oral sedatives

RE: Oral sedatives

Daniella Sellick — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 16:57:29 GMT

I have used oral medetomidine on these occasions in the past. 0.4ml/10kg. Has to be given onto the gums 40 minutes before due in. DO stress onto gums (like sileo), I've had one owner mix it in with food and obviouslyit had very little effect.

RE: Oral sedatives

Stephen Courtney — Sat, 25 Mar 2017 12:07:03 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

[quote user="Linda Filshie"]How about a hefty dose of phenobarb?[/quote]

Has anyone actually tried this?

The reason I ask is because I've seen ACP +/- diazepam fail on many occasions and would be interested to try this.

What dose?

Neil

[/quote]

Yes I have - twice. Large very aggressive GSD dogs that had to be PTS because they were so dangerous. they had come via the Police, and were being housed at a kennels we used to look after.

I seem to recall giving about 30 x ACP 25mg and 30 x Epiphen 60mg. The kennel owner put the tablets in the animals' breakfast and i got there 2 hours later. Perhaps over-kill but in each case the dog was totally comatose and unresponsive, did not need the massive dose of domitor i had in mind. I still muzzled and got someone to hold the dog for me in case it woke up, and finished the job with intracardiac euthanasia solution. not pleasant but I don't wrestle with aggressive dogs, end of.

RE: Oral sedatives

Utlendigur — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 23:52:59 GMT

Is it still possible to get butorphanol in tablet form (Torbutrol)? I used this in combination with Acp a couple of times years ago for aggressive dog PTSs, and it did give much better sedation than Acp alone, but then the tablets became ridiculously expensive to keep in stock.

RE: Oral sedatives

Neil Wheadon — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 23:26:35 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

When given to a calm dog on an empty stomach half an hour before visiting the vets? I dose at top end of dose range (3mg/kg or 1x10mg tablet per 3.3kg).

There is an oral alpha 2 but I've not tried it or needed it with the little yellow pills.

[/quote]

Yes it will sedate them, but in these cases it simply needs to be enough to allow them to be safe to be handled. The ones I see consistently have been fed maybe up to 100mg of ACP and as soon as you try to do anything they will have you. This is why I have no faith in ACP at all. The last one I dealt with was a few months ago. Another vet had fed a 35kg mastiff dog 100mg. I ended up using a dog catcher and adding medetomidine as although the eyelids looked droopey it would still have you.

This is the reason I asked about phenobarbitone and the dose required as I haven't seen that done.

Neil

RE: Oral sedatives

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 22:54:14 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]The reason I ask is because I've seen ACP +/- diazepam fail on many occasions [/quote]

When given to a calm dog on an empty stomach half an hour before visiting the vets? I dose at top end of dose range (3mg/kg or 1x10mg tablet per 3.3kg).

There is an oral alpha 2 but I've not tried it or needed it with the little yellow pills.

RE: Oral sedatives

Nicola Cole — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 22:36:07 GMT

Great, thanks, have gone back and looked at the old thread as well. Thanks for all replies and ideas.

RE: Oral sedatives

Rob Loxley — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 22:14:06 GMT

[quote user="Nicola M"]Does anyone have a favourite oral sedative that they think is really reliable?[/quote]

If you do a search this has come up before a number of times.
I quite like pentobarbital mixed in food, or domitor into the mouth

RE: Oral sedatives

Nicola Cole — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 20:01:48 GMT

[quote user="Claire Fisher"]

The aggressive dogs we PTS get phenobarb, diazepam and ACP. Works well for most of them.

[/quote]

is that at a full dose of each drug?

RE: Oral sedatives

Claire Fisher — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 19:37:10 GMT

The aggressive dogs we PTS get phenobarb, diazepam and ACP. Works well for most of them.

RE: Oral sedatives

Nicola Cole — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:33:01 GMT

Yep I usually would just jab domitor after owner puts a muzzle on at home...but she's so petrified just seeing if I can send her on her way without her getting so stressed.

(I know I'm being soppy but I've known her for a while and although she'd happily eat me, once you've spent a good half hour with her bonding over treats she starts to trust you and gets a bit soppy and you see her softer side (it was a quiet morning last time I saw her so could take my time with her!)...that is until you try to do anything to her...then the process starts all over again!)

RE: Oral sedatives

Clive Ansell — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:11:22 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

[quote user="Linda Filshie"]How about a hefty dose of phenobarb?[/quote]

Has anyone actually tried this?

The reason I ask is because I've seen ACP +/- diazepam fail on many occasions and would be interested to try this.

What dose?

[/quote]

Yes, but not that reliable, but sometimes helps, and sometimes the only first option, even if it allows the owners to get it muzzled to allow injection i/m.

Dose - as much as possible if just trying to flatten to pts.

Usually though, I'll try and inject one way or another after the owner has placed a muzzle - if the owners can't/won't do that, then I would follow Martins advice - go elsewhere.

RE: Oral sedatives

Neil Wheadon — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 16:57:07 GMT

[quote user="Linda Filshie"]How about a hefty dose of phenobarb?[/quote]

Has anyone actually tried this?

The reason I ask is because I've seen ACP +/- diazepam fail on many occasions and would be interested to try this.

What dose?

Neil

RE: Oral sedatives

Clive Ansell — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 16:17:56 GMT

I always find combination therapy works best, so may be a mixture of oral acp/diazepam/phenobarb, enough to get a muzzle on at least. Then maybe inject acp/domitor/ketamine combination.

If no good, get the police to shoot it.

RE: Oral sedatives

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 15:56:37 GMT

Tell the owner to muzzle it and give it a shot of medetomidine when it comes in. If they can't even do that suggest they may like to take their custom elsewhere.

RE: Oral sedatives

Linda Filshie — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 15:46:31 GMT

How about a hefty dose of phenobarb?