Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Bob Russell — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 12:21:30 GMT

Not sure you are in the minority. I have seen a number of studies that support its use. A number of well respected human institutions use K laser.

I remain cynical enough not to buy one despite the accountant being enthusiastic!

Not homoeopathic level but a lot of money and a level of belief that I am not comfortable with so not going to buy one at this stage.

Any others out there that are willing to stick a head above the parapet to give their experience with K laser or similar?

Like the price of the laser that keeps popping up on VetSurgeon but I prefer facts and proper trials than extreme enthusiasm!

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Mark Rowland — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 10:31:26 GMT

Haha ok Im actually quite happy to be in a minority here

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Rob Loxley — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 10:28:30 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]

Haha N is much more than that. Those are the stand out cases.

I suppose there are those up for new things and those who are not.

All I can say is that I have lots of pleased clients opting for a no drug option that they and I perceive to be working.

The accountant is also happy

[/quote]

Are those not the same arguments for homeopathy?

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

David Mills — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 00:22:38 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]

went on to make a full recovery ......

[/quote]

Correlation is not causation my dear.

Probably would have healed anyway.

Money is money though...

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Mark Rowland — Thu, 30 Mar 2017 21:20:39 GMT

went on to make a full recovery ......

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Mark Rowland — Thu, 30 Mar 2017 21:20:07 GMT

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Mark Rowland — Thu, 30 Mar 2017 21:19:32 GMT

Goose foot wound, next is 1 day later after 1 laser application

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Mark Rowland — Thu, 30 Mar 2017 21:18:57 GMT

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Mark Rowland — Thu, 30 Mar 2017 20:41:43 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]

Haha Jest you may David

But I get free riding lessons where I lasered a ponies stifle, no drugs and sound for first time in 2 years.

And even more miraculous. A paralysed g pig that I got walking again using it. Absolutely true

Sorry about the dog :(

[/quote]

What a crying shame n=2 with no control.

Science, eh?

[/quote]

Haha N is much more than that. Those are the stand out cases.

I suppose there are those up for new things and those who are not.

All I can say is that I have lots of pleased clients opting for a no drug option that they and I perceive to be working.

We laser surgical wounds , wing tip oedema, canine and feline arthritis, gingivitis. Bumblefoot, dog attack tortoises, dental abscesses the list goes on. It doesn't fix them all but Ill have paid for the kit very soon

The accountant is also happy

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Linda Filshie — Sun, 26 Mar 2017 00:28:08 GMT

What a shame about the outcome but I am very grateful to you for sharing this case.

It helped inform my thinking on a greyhound that presented to me last Friday with an acutely painful extremely swollen hind leg, temp of 40.3C and the probable inciting cause of a small wound on the stifle which he had incurred a couple of weeks previously and had been licking at on and off which wasn't healing. With the pictures you had taken fresh in my mind I started him on enrofloxacin and metronidazole, and though I'm not ordinarily one to reach for fluroquinolones without C&S, in this case I'm very glad I did. He came in two days later with THE most spectacular red/purple discolouration of the skin from stifle to prepuce (temp down to 39 at that stage and leg a lot more comfortable) and two days after that with pitting oedema from stifle to distal metatarsus. As of this Friday the discolouration is receding at a rapid rate, the oedema is gone, and he is using the leg normally. I suspect that had I proceeded more cautiously with antibiosis I would be looking at a very different outcome, so thank you again for sharing.

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

David Mills — Sat, 25 Mar 2017 23:03:38 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]

Haha Jest you may David

But I get free riding lessons where I lasered a ponies stifle, no drugs and sound for first time in 2 years.

And even more miraculous. A paralysed g pig that I got walking again using it. Absolutely true

Sorry about the dog :(

[/quote]

What a crying shame n=2 with no control.

Science, eh?

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Sat, 25 Mar 2017 20:31:53 GMT

[quote user="Charlie Lyon"]

The decision has been made to PTS, antibx are making her poorly now so thanks for all the advice, will be useful for future cases.

[/quote]sorry for that , that must have been hard for you as well as the owners. It did look a horrendous challenge even if unlimited funds Had been available

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Mark Rowland — Sat, 25 Mar 2017 17:22:42 GMT

Haha Jest you may David

But I get free riding lessons where I lasered a ponies stifle, no drugs and sound for first time in 2 years.

And even more miraculous. A paralysed g pig that I got walking again using it. Absolutely true

Sorry about the dog :(

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Charlie Lyon — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:22:16 GMT

The decision has been made to PTS, antibx are making her poorly now so thanks for all the advice, will be useful for future cases.

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Charlie Lyon — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:05:13 GMT

We thought of that at the beginning. It extends so high and with what's growing concerned that we wouldn't get all of it the size it is and it would just come back and would have put her through that surgery for nothing

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

David Mills — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 01:04:31 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]

If I were you I would give the K Laser people a call and get a 2week free trial and use it on this.

I ordered one after the first week of my trial and it is just amazing for things like this. Im using it on the dog attack tortoises as well as bumblefoot.

Goodluck

[/quote]

Can they spare some crystals and prayers whilst they're at it?

Why not just leg amp the poor sod?

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Mark Rowland — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:15:07 GMT

If I were you I would give the K Laser people a call and get a 2week free trial and use it on this.

I ordered one after the first week of my trial and it is just amazing for things like this. Im using it on the dog attack tortoises as well as bumblefoot.

Goodluck

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Charlie Lyon — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:03:09 GMT

So photos from just after debridement and from yesterday. Even though it looked fairly clean after debridement a necrotic area has appeared again much to our frustration. After the wet-to-dry dressing caused epic bleeding manuka honey dressings changed daily are being used at the moment but would we be better off going back to wet-to-dry seeing as necrotic areas are back?

Sunday morning

Yesterday

We have that saline in a can that we used to flush the wound before redressing it every day. Stressful case!

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Anthony Todd — Wed, 22 Mar 2017 00:11:35 GMT

You could probably just irrigate/loosen/debride with warm water and a shower head off the mains trying the various jets and pressure etc?.

Can't see that tap water would be too infective.

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Tim Charlesworth — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 09:36:29 GMT

all that white/black skin can usually be debrided conscious (it's dead tissue) and needs to come off the wound. Is it all full thickness and can't really see from the photos). If you have a really big defect then it will almost certainly need a large skin flap (eg caudal epigastric axial pattern flap) to close the wound, can you upload a photo that isn't so close up so can seen the relative size of the defect to the dog. If not as big as I fear then it would prob heal by 2nd intention/partial closure but will take a few months if left to its owne devices. I don't think that there are any welfare probs as long as the dog is on anlagesia and appearing comfortable

Tim

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Anthony Todd — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 09:06:36 GMT

Current picture please??

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Jill Butterworth — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 08:25:26 GMT

I'm dying to debride all that necrotic muck off! I agree maggots could do it, but it's probably a bit too off the wall and containing them in a sterile manner could be a nightmare in an ambulatory dog. Pyrexia or no, as others have said, it's just a minging focus of infection which will have to slough anyway. It always intrigues me when owners stress about about a GA and then consider euthanasia in the same breath...

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

ruths — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 07:34:13 GMT

I have never used maggots and have no idea how they work in practice, but in the light of not doing a ga and debridement, I wonder if you could use them here

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 14:09:47 GMT

[quote user="Charlie Lyon"]Dog is still eating and drinking and temperature is stable. PCV this morning was 20 and WBC are 49. Not enough money to refer. We are getting concerned about the welfare implications of continuing. Thoughts?[/quote]

If the dog is still eating and drinking, and you are seeing an improvement, I can't see why you need to worry about referral. It's likely they would do exactly as you are doing anyway!

You're doing a great job so far - with a wound that massive it's going to take a long time to heal. It's best looking at these cases on a weekly basis, rather than a daily basis. You'll see big improvements then.

RE: Very swollen ulcerated leg wound

Charlie Lyon — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 13:33:09 GMT

So update on this - yesterday whilst doing a dressing change a vein was disturbed and started to bleed heavily as the would is so deep, my colleague on call then did the surgical debridement\stopped the bleeding and also FNA'd the enlarged LN which turned out to be pus... the lab did suggest a possible haematological source of infection on initial biopsy

Dog is still eating and drinking and temperature is stable. PCV this morning was 20 and WBC are 49. Not enough money to refer. We are getting concerned about the welfare implications of continuing. Thoughts?