Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

David Mills — Mon, 27 Feb 2017 15:04:00 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]and agree David, fiv not fatal [/quote]In the same way that no-one did from HIV then just the complications of AIDS? I must remember to tell the cat owners whose pets have died from the complications secondary to FIV that then!

[/quote]

You're having a terrible week on here

FIV is not HIV. There are plentiful studies out there that show FIV +ve cats live same length lives, in most cases, as FIV -ve cats. The point just isn't up for discussion, regardless of your poor logic and anecdotal nonsense.

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 27 Feb 2017 09:42:43 GMT

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

ruths — Sun, 26 Feb 2017 08:31:55 GMT

Or maybe give the guys at CatS Protection HQ a call.

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

ruths — Sun, 26 Feb 2017 08:30:15 GMT

This webcast might be helpful - I haven't watched it recently, but think it was quite good.

http://www.maddiesfund.org/how-animal-shelters-are-beating-ringworm.htm?p=topic75

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

Kate Richardson — Sat, 25 Feb 2017 18:11:51 GMT

I agree with full clipping if possible and topical anti-fungal treatment as well, Douxo do a foam that can be applied so shampooing not necessary, contains climbazole I think from memory

and agree David, fiv not fatal

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

David Mills — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 20:52:08 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I'm working all the time with multi-cat foster homes, the issues are very similar.[/quote]

They aren't, but never mind. A shelter environment is very different to someone's house.

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]That's a dumb question which I will answer: is AIDS fatal?[/quote]

Where to go with this logical fail.

Have you read the literature?

Here's one to start

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2822370/

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

Beats — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 19:40:32 GMT

lime sulfur dips are still popular in some shelters.

shaving long-haired cats is a top priority in my opinion.

going back about 10 years now, last shelter having ringworm endemic problem was solved with combination of improved hygiene and getting affected kittens rehomed asap as indoor cats to new homes (no young kids of dogs/cats) rather than trying to keep them until clear. each kitten went to new home on itrafungol then, but I'd have more reservations these days about splashing around so much of a critically important systemic antifungal for a (usually) self-limiting disease in cats. The staff all had lesions also - I sent them to their doctor who prescribed mebendazole without even looking at the lesions...

I agree with comment re different strains and different levels of difficulty apparently dealing with.

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

Anthony Todd — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 18:05:13 GMT

I used to advise cat colonists with a ringworm problem to burn their house and cattery down as being the only sure way.....

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 17:49:28 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]When was the last time you worked in a shelter? [/quote]I'm working all the time with multi-cat foster homes, the issues are very similar.

[quote user="David Mills"]Is FIV fatal? [/quote]That's a dumb question which I will answer: is AIDS fatal? Personally I'd rather not catch HIV to find out. Same I wouldn't want to re-home an FIV +ve cat without I knew it was going to kept indoors in a single cat household or one with other FIV +ve cats.

PS I didn't give you one star!

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

David Mills — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 15:31:18 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="David Mills"]Brushing the cats is unlikely to be useful as they'll probably all have it. Carrier status in cats is common as the spores live on the hairs for months. A cheap way is to pluck the hair and exam under oil, the spores are easy to see on the shaft.[/quote]A whole coat brushing is a much more reliable way to get a sample - if you can't see any lesions where do you pluck? And identifying the spores is not that easy for the untrained eye.

[quote user="David Mills"]Fully clipping the cats can help but you'd need to chuck the clippers after.[/quote]That's a bit excessive isn't it, its not that difficult to thoroughly clean a clipper and sterilise the blade.

[quote user="David Mills"]There's also the issue of rehoming a cat with an infectious disease, which doesn't help the wider cat population.[/quote]Where do you stop with that: no FHV or FCV carriers allowed to be re-homed? That would take out a very high proportion of rescue cats out of the re-homing pool, if not the majority! Ringworm isn't fatal like FeLV/FIV.

[/quote]

When was the last time you worked in a shelter? Exactly

Is FIV fatal? Last time I checked the literature rather than my own cognitive bias it wasn't.

Good effort though. I can almost write your response for you.

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

Anthony Todd — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 15:08:48 GMT

WRT cat flu is the intranasal vaccine still available? Used to help even day old kittens in an infected environment.

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

Anthony Dennison — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 14:51:12 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Where do you stop with that: no FHV or FCV carriers allowed to be re-homed? That would take out a very high proportion of rescue cats out of the re-homing pool, if not the majority! Ringworm isn't fatal like FeLV/FIV.[/quote]

I can see where David is coming from with this due to unfortunate personal experience at the shelter I visit. These cats need to be kept in isolation until they are rehomed, the risk of a 'flu outbreak spreading through the whole cattery is too high. They are kept at the shelter for a much longer period of time whilst clinical signs settle, and risk worsening when they are rehomed (which could lead to them being brought back).

These cats have no lesions. The samples I have been taking are hair plucks from around their heads, where the lesions originally were.

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 14:33:54 GMT

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

David Mills — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 13:45:30 GMT

Different strains are variably zoonotic - I think there are about 7/8 different types.

Brushing the cats is unlikely to be useful as they'll probably all have it. Carrier status in cats is common as the spores live on the hairs for months. A cheap way is to pluck the hair and exam under oil, the spores are easy to see on the shaft.

Fully clipping the cats can help but you'd need to chuck the clippers after.

Reluctant centre managers may need re-education. Full disclosure of being ringworm carriers is usually enough to dissuade sensible people from adopting, in the meantime the cats are a source of infection. There's also the issue of rehoming a cat with an infectious disease, which doesn't help the wider cat population.

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 12:49:06 GMT

Many of our clients were taken by FMD in 2001. If you were killed out you stayed empty for 6 months and everything was cleaned and disinfected. They put a few sentinel animals in - they went down with ringworm.

The building was cleaner than it ever had been before.

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

Linda Filshie — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 10:42:06 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

They've had so much money put into them the centre manager would prefer to try and rehome them if possible.

[/quote]

The good old sunk-cost fallacy is at work there then.

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

Anthony Dennison — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 09:22:22 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]Ringworm is a bastard to get rid of. You almost need microscopic, toothbrush cleaning of every square cm of cage. I assume this is the RSPCA shelter?[/quote]

Yes. Luckily the cat kennels are pretty new and plastic so easy to decontaminate.

[quote user="David Mills"]I'd be very very wary of putting these in with or near other animals. You can get resolved carriers who are essentially immune but still contagious. If they're going to a new home, then fine as long as risks are explained and no other animals - in fact getting the cats out of there is probably the best thing.[/quote]

Thanks for that info - just the kind of answer I was looking for. When I took the samples last time I even jokingly rubbed a graze I had on my wrist all over the 3 kittens I was that sure there wouldn't be any ringworm - I've had no lesions (and I've never had it before) so I thought I would be ok.

Reckon it would be worth sampling each of them individually to find the cuplrit? Or housing them individually?

[quote user="David Mills"]We PTS almost all ringworm cases in strays because of their infectious potential.[/quote]

They've had so much money put into them the centre manager would prefer to try and rehome them if possible.

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

Anthony Todd — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 20:20:14 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]Ringworm is [/quote]

Ah the joys of cat shows back in the day when any cat with any sort of hairless lesion had "ringworm", instant ejection, but a prior penning for the exhibitor in a usually very public place....

Then someone decided to take brushings from long-haired cats which had no lesions; ringworm positives everywhere, not a sign of a lesion or hair loss in any of them........

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 18:45:04 GMT

I had a situation in a multi-cat CP foster home. Several of the cats had classical symptoms and were treated one didn't show any clinical signs not even an isolated hair glowing under the woods light. The condition improved with treatment and tested negative but recurred in the same cats and the same one was asymptomatic again. Second time we took a whole coat brushing of that one and it came back positive for Microsporum canis so when he was treated as well they all got better with no recurrence.

Moral: don't re-home until all coat brushings come back negative.

RE: Ringworm isolated with no clinical signs

David Mills — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 18:43:45 GMT

Ringworm is a bastard to get rid of. You almost need microscopic, toothbrush cleaning of every square cm of cage. I assume this is the RSPCA shelter?

I'd be very very wary of putting these in with or near other animals. You can get resolved carriers who are essentially immune but still contagious. If they're going to a new home, then fine as long as risks are explained and no other animals - in fact getting the cats out of there is probably the best thing. We PTS almost all ringworm cases in strays because of their infectious potential.