spondylosis in a cat

RE: spondylosis in a cat

John Wessels — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 21:42:14 GMT

Anthony:

I ve used (and still use) Depo liberally over 30 odd years. Never seen an animal become diabetic.

Always give injections with at least 4 week interval.

RE: spondylosis in a cat

Anthony Todd — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:44:42 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]There must be an explanation for this gross difference in sequelae![/quote]

Loads of references in humans via google:

Rev Assoc Med Bras (1992). 2012 Jan-Feb;58(1):125-8.

Glucose disturbances in non-diabetic patients receiving acute treatment with methylprednisolone pulses.

and

World J Diabetes. 2015 Jul 25;6(8):1073-81. doi: 10.4239/wjd.v6.i8.1073.

Steroid hyperglycemia: Prevalence, early detection and therapeutic recommendations: A narrative review.

Tamez-Pérez HE1, Quintanilla-Flores DL1, Rodríguez-Gutiérrez R1, González-González JG1, Tamez-Peña AL1.

I always used any steroid only when necessary so even depomed was never "at weekly intervals" but only when symptoms were, ideally, just about to recur, say in chronic dermatitis or gingivitis.

I wonder whether this may have saved me??

Did MA and DM always give at set intervals 'cos I reckon often it would be effective for a lot more than a week. for example. I had the same "when necessary and only if necessary with all steroids.

RE: spondylosis in a cat

Anthony Todd — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:32:27 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

Never seen dm from depo. Must use it at least twice a week (so about 100x a year). 0.1mls/kg.

[/quote]

About my dose too and, in case it is significant I always gave it S/C or [worked better] sub-lesionally [and made sense to me].

There must be an explanation for this gross difference in sequelae!

RE: spondylosis in a cat

David Mills — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:09:12 GMT

Never seen dm from depo. Must use it at least twice a week (so about 100x a year). 0.1mls/kg.

RE: spondylosis in a cat

shanley barber — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 16:07:44 GMT

Thank you all for your help, much appreciated!

RE: spondylosis in a cat

Malcolm Ness — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 15:42:03 GMT

[quote user="shanley barber"]No, I agree the hips aren't fantastic, but not a lot of secondary changes visible yet.[/quote]

I see this differently. The hips are both markedly incongruent and there is evidence of bony remodelling, periarticular osteophytosis and cartilage loss - the bone of the femoral heads appears to be in contact with the bone of the acetabulum with no interposed cartilage "space" cranially.

I think that there is hip dysplasia here with a well established and quite severe secondary OA. These hip changes certainly have the potential to cause the clinical signs reported and would be my primary target for treatment (extended NSAIDs) not least because the hips are likely to be, at least partly, amenable to treatment.

The significance of the spondylosis is difficult to know. This does not have the typical pattern of hyper vitaminosis A. Without evidence of neurological deficits I think that MRI is quite inappropriate. There is remarkably little to be done for cases of spondylosis and while aggressive investigation might be academically interesting, I would struggle to justify it clinically.

RE: spondylosis in a cat

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 15:10:24 GMT

[quote user="shanley barber"]

Hi all, this is a British short hair, 11 years old FN. We have trialled her on Metacam, with moderate improvement. She still isn't able to jump onto the sofa whilst on Metacam. No, I agree the hips aren't fantastic, but not a lot of secondary changes visible yet. I would have expected them to respond better to Metacam, which is why I'm questioning if this spondylosis could be the problem.

[/quote]

It seems to my simple mind that there need not be pain, there need not be neurological disease; surely the plain straightforward mechanical stiffness of the spine would prevent the jumping on to the sofa. Yes I'm sure the spondylosis (or whatever it is) is the problem.

RE: spondylosis in a cat

Dagmar Steele — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 12:02:47 GMT

Yes, I've seen that happen. Not only when I used it but also when others did. I only use it when there is no other option (various reasons, in this case it was the only agent that provided acceptable QOL for some time). I have one client, cat has plasmacellular gingivitis, refuses to have teeth removed, cat gets regular depo injections when on Crete (where they spend half of their time). It is on pred on top and I'm really worried for it, but so far this greek vet has been lucky. Bottom line: It is a common side effect, but it doesn't always happen. I tend to avoid whenever I can, but when it's down to dead or depo I'll use it.

RE: spondylosis in a cat

Anthony Todd — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 11:46:46 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]]I have resisted giving depo for many years as I've seen too many cats become diabetic as a result. However I have one cat with immune mediated dermatitis. The owner is incapable of giving the cat oral medication or applying topical treatment so I started it on Depomedrone. After 4 doses at 6 week intervals guess what - yup it has become diabetic.[/quote]

This is really odd because I used it when necessary in and repeated doses for years and never had a cat become diabetic.

Of course, some would say, well you didn't diagnose it; doesn't mean they didn't have it, but if it was diabetic and I missed it the owner would have gone elsewhere and I would have been told....

Some dogs [westies!! became polydipsic on normal dose rates but cats just got better, without polydipsia or any odd sign, and sometimes after repeated doses.

Did I miss the diabetics or what??

What is the diagnostic criterion in your "diabetics"? Is your dose higher?

Just seems odd to me. Anyone else??

Did the diabetes revert to normal as the drug wore off?

RE: spondylosis in a cat

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 10:49:00 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]...depo is a good option.[/quote]I have resisted giving depo for many years as I've seen too many cats become diabetic as a result. However I have one cat with immune mediated dermatitis. The owner is incapable of giving the cat oral medication or applying topical treatment so I started it on Depomedrone. After 4 doses at 6 week intervals guess what - yup it has become diabetic.

RE: spondylosis in a cat

shanley barber — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 10:30:42 GMT

RE: spondylosis in a cat

Glen McIntosh — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 22:23:29 GMT

What breed is this cat? Any Scottish Fold in it? They will often have horrendous spondylosis (some of the ones I have seen in HK are even worse than this), often along with severe arthritis in many, if not all, of the joints. Check the hocks, they can often be severely affected. Scottish Fold Osteochondrodysplasia is the name of the disease. It is heritable.

RE: spondylosis in a cat

Kate Richardson — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 20:28:44 GMT

Hips don't look great either?

have you trialled any treatment such as meloxicam yet to assess response?

RE: spondylosis in a cat

David Mills — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 20:03:34 GMT

IME cats with spondylosis respond better to steroids than nsaids - as said above, depo is a good option.

My understanding has always been that it's painful until the bits fuse.

RE: spondylosis in a cat

shanley barber — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 19:32:25 GMT

I did take lateral radiographs of the stifles and there was no sign of OA either side, and they were completely normal on palpation under GA. There is some bony proliferation in the hock, at the tarsometatarsal joint, bilaterally.

Ive never paid too much attention spondylosis before, but I've not seen it seems to penetrate so deeply into the retroperitoneal space.

RE: spondylosis in a cat

Dagmar Steele — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 13:33:21 GMT

Maybe related to Vitamin A toxicity? I once had a patient like that, o refused referral. This cat had severe neurological symptoms (unable to stand) which resolved under depo-medrate. Once the steroids were out of the system, the symptoms returned with a vengeance, o elected pts after a while. Very unsatisfying case as no further tests were allowed but the radiographs looked very, very similar.

RE: spondylosis in a cat

James Dunne — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 12:46:02 GMT

Spondylosis in itself might not be painful but it is indicative of intervertebral instability. Further imaging such a MRI might help determine whether compression of the spinal cord or nerve roots is occurring. Also, bear in mind that conditions such as osteoarthritis of the stifles might be the problem. I see both fabellae in both stifles and there was a clinical research abstract a few years ago at BSAVA [can't remember if it has been published since] that indicated that cats with both fabellae present radiographically often had osteoarthritis of the stifle. If the cat has no neurologic deficits then weight loss if applicable, pain relief and physiotherapy might be a reasonable way to progress for functional improvement. If that fails then referral for further assessment/investigation would be sensible.

RE: spondylosis in a cat

shanley barber — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 12:26:02 GMT

RE: spondylosis in a cat

shanley barber — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 12:25:34 GMT