For the cat experts!

RE: For the cat experts!

Bob Russell — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 15:45:00 GMT

Back to the original thread as I have been away!

Bite on the bum until proved otherwise. Would tend to agree that these are worth a bit of investigation and flushing IMO!

RE: For the cat experts!

Beats — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 01:12:22 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="David Mills"]

1. Never use steroids and nsaids together

2. Acp causes collapse in Boxers [I've seen this on occasions] / lowers seizure threshold in epileptics

3. Tmps stuff above [I think the reduction in complications noted largely mirrors the unpopularity of the Doberman since the 90's, but I have seen a few cases of KCS and polyarthritis post-TMPS, admittedly I usually do skin cases at 25-30mg/kg q12hrs, - no more than say suspected IMHA after cefalexin though; norodine 80 still available also, but the norodine 20 disappeared at same time as trimacare 20; i beleive most of side effects thought to be sulpha and most of efficacy thought to be TMP - anyone prefer to use this on its own and does your experience reflect the theory eg http://www.tevauk.com/p/trimethoprim-329 ?]

4. Mammary tumours are 50/50 malignant/benign

5. Don't use domitor in old or dehydrated animals

6. Amox la is useless

[/quote]

7. You can't use steroids when there is an infection or everything will die

8. Tubing cats for routine surgery makes it safer

9. ACP makes noise phobia worse

10. Orthopaedics are hard, you need to refer everything (or possibly you can't fix a #femur in a cat with just an IM pin....)

[/quote]

11. Distal radial ulnar fractures in toy breeds under a year of age won't heal with a splint.

12. More cephalexin-use and less steroids means you are a better dermatologist.

13. All mast cell tumours must be excised with huge margins, irrespective of the morbidity this will cause, or they will recur.

14. If you don't scrub your hands and forearms with a hard brush for 5-7 minutes prior to every surgery your patients will die of infections.

15. If you do an ex lap and don't find anything you should always take biopsies

16. Allergy vaccines are the perfect treatment for itchy dogs

RE: For the cat experts!

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 16:48:55 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

1. Never use steroids and nsaids together

2. Acp causes collapse in Boxers / lowers seizure threshold in epileptics

3. Tmps stuff above

4. Mammary tumours are 50/50 malignant/benign

5. Don't use domitor in old or dehydrated animals

6. Amox la is useless

[/quote]

7. You can't use steroids when there is an infection or everything will die

8. Tubing cats for routine surgery makes it safer

9. ACP makes noise phobia worse

10. Orthopaedics are hard, you need to refer everything (or possibly you can't fix a #femur in a cat with just an IM pin....)

RE: For the cat experts!

patrick murphy — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 16:32:40 GMT

after disparaging it for years even the medics are resorting to it. maybe it is the fact that is one of if not the most inexpensive per kg drugs around. and it works as nobody uses it very much anymore owing to the possible problems. I had one possible aplastic anaemia, and one possible KCS in all of my years, and found them so devastating that I have been scared to use much. even caused laryngeal paralysis in one of my horses with perivascular injection I think.

RE: For the cat experts!

patrick murphy — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 16:26:14 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Potentiated sulphonamides have far too many side-effects[/quote]

The main one I saw/see is lameness after about 5 days, simply warn the owner and if stop treatment, no lasting harm. Maybe one case in 20? 21 days skin treatment on Cephalexin and the like for a large dog can run into 3 figures, yet here we have a narrower spectrum, far cheaper and effective drug that isn't used.

Neil

[/quote]

I hand tmps out like sweeties and have never seen a side effect of arthritis, dry eye, skin swellings or any other of the supposed things were taught at vet school.

I'm thinking of writing an article on the 10 most incorrect taught dogmas at vet school, here's my starting list:

1. Never use steroids and nsaids together

2. Acp causes collapse in Boxers / lowers seizure threshold in epileptics

3. Tmps stuff above

4. Mammary tumours are 50/50 malignant/benign

5. Don't use domitor in old or dehydrated animals

6. Amox la is useless

....

[/quote] I am still looking for the string/elastic band around a cats' frenulum that is supposed to happen every day in general practice.

RE: For the cat experts!

Anthony Dennison — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 12:10:31 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]I hand tmps out like sweeties and have never seen a side effect of arthritis, dry eye, skin swellings or any other of the supposed things were taught at vet school.[/quote]

Me too. I have had one case of slightly dry eye, but I think the dog was going that way anyway. Did have an acute hepatitis case due to TMPS once though - dog went bright yellow after about 3 or 4 days of treatment, resolved quickly enough.

RE: For the cat experts!

Anthony Todd — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 23:40:58 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"] Those that don't are likely to get antibiotics as the next step. Perfectly logical in my mind[/quote]

And the first line of treatment is a broad spectrum antibiotic in these days of increasing bacterial resistance which doesn't work as well, in CBs, either.....???

RE: For the cat experts!

Anthony Todd — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 23:37:35 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]What...ever? Only one case of KCS in your whole career?[/quote]

Yes, at N16, even remember that... [related to drugs].

Saw a few KCS when the treatment was the parotid transplant but we referred them to the RVC even way-back-then.

But Trimethoprin etc came late to me so probably occurred more after 2000

RE: For the cat experts!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 22:05:28 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

What brands or makes of TMPS are you people using?

[/quote]

Trimacare 80s at the moment.

Believe Trimacare 20s off the market now. Sad times. Never use the 80s in cats - they loathe it.

[/quote]

Ah, I thought 80s had gone as well. Sad times, anyway.

RE: For the cat experts!

Neil Wheadon — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 21:41:38 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Wot's the "negative" of a shot of penLA?[/quote]

Kate beat me to it, see above

Neil

RE: For the cat experts!

Kate Richardson — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 20:43:11 GMT

These are the days of not giving antibiotics unnecessarily ie obvious or strong suspicion of infection or hgh potential of getting one. A significant number of pyrexic cats (and dogs) get better with no tx other than symptomatic ie anti-pyrexia medication. Those that don't are likely to get antibiotics as the next step. Perfectly logical in my mind

RE: For the cat experts!

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 20:39:33 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Seen it only once in a dobie[/quote]

What...ever? Only one case of KCS in your whole career?

RE: For the cat experts!

Anthony Todd — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 19:42:13 GMT

[quote user="Glenn Hodgson"]give the cat a few days and see how goes? Then move to dxs if not better. This seems to be a reasonable option if improveing in 24 houra on your meds.[/quote]

Yep, in the days when you were considered incompetent, if you needed to resort to a test, a shot of an AB or a steroid, depending on the condition, and the physical exam and history, was the obvious and most sensible course.

It always surprised me how often this totally, illogical, unsubstantiated treatment worked with the animal back to normal and eating etc. within 24 hours.

[I mean with a pyrexic unhappy cat but NAD [=No Abnormality Detected]

[when you were using 6 x 4 record cards TLAs were essential!!]

RE: For the cat experts!

Anthony Todd — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 19:36:51 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]Trimacare 80s at the moment. [/quote]

Used to be great for dogs with a nasal discharge or "kennel cough" that you hoped was not distemper, and some pyodermas.

RE: For the cat experts!

David Mills — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 19:22:13 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

What brands or makes of TMPS are you people using?

[/quote]

Trimacare 80s at the moment.

Believe Trimacare 20s off the market now. Sad times. Never use the 80s in cats - they loathe it.

RE: For the cat experts!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 19:16:44 GMT

What brands or makes of TMPS are you people using?

RE: For the cat experts!

Anthony Todd — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 19:11:27 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]Dry eye[/quote]

Seen it only once in a dobie.

RE: For the cat experts!

Anthony Todd — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 19:08:42 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]See the other thread I started on a pyrexic cat. NSAID, antibiotics? both have negatives.[/quote]

Wot's the "negative" of a shot of penLA?

Certainly it eliminates probably the commonest cause of a pyrexic cat with no other signs.

Solely reducing the animals temperature ain't going to fix anything!

As for steroids, unless I have some sort of evangelical powers, and have been enthusiastically believed to excess, it's a bad idea, and if I had suggested it I'd be pilloried!!

RE: For the cat experts!

Glenn Hodgson — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 18:14:46 GMT

give the cat a few days and see how goes? Then move to dxs if not better. This seems to be a reasonable option if improveing in 24 houra on your meds.

TMPS - I use quite often, less than used to. Seen many dry eys from others, I would use as a very late resort in a WHWT or spaniel.

Seen 2 TMPS crystalurias. Looks like Metlot and very alarming but resolved fine each time.

One wolfhound with immune mediated polyarthrits just this year. Long off his pred now and doing ok.

RE: For the cat experts!

David Mills — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 18:08:15 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Potentiated sulphonamides have far too many side-effects[/quote]

Neil

[/quote]

I hand tmps out like sweeties and have never seen a side effect of arthritis, dry eye, skin swellings or any other of the supposed things were taught at vet school.

I'm thinking of writing an article on the 10 most incorrect taught dogmas at vet school, here's my starting list:

1. Never use steroids and nsaids together

2. Acp causes collapse in Boxers / lowers seizure threshold in epileptics

3. Tmps stuff above

4. Mammary tumours are 50/50 malignant/benign

5. Don't use domitor in old or dehydrated animals

6. Amox la is useless

....

RE: For the cat experts!

Neil Wheadon — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 17:58:53 GMT

[quote user="Virginia Campbell"]Dry eye[/quote]

How often? Genuine question as I have never knowingly caused it.

However I routinely used it in bigger dogs

Neil

RE: For the cat experts!

Virginia Campbell — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 17:55:57 GMT

Dry eye is what puts me off using it, as the majority of our canine patients are predisposed small breeds. OK they might have developed KCS anyway but I'm not gonna feel too super about it if it happens soon after TMPS.

RE: For the cat experts!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 17:52:05 GMT

Dry eye?

Wynne

RE: For the cat experts!

David Mills — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 17:49:44 GMT

Dex and amox la as long as not sneezing (Dex has anti-pyretic properties too).

In human medicine they almost always treat pyrexia. It might take longer to get better but it reduces morbidity. Anyone with kids let them sweat it out rather than calpol?

From a pathology perspective,any infections induce tnf-alpha in order to optimise reproduction. So to say that a high temperature is the body's way of dealing with it is naive.

From an ethical sense, animals can't reason feeling crap. They'll normally stop eating/drinking and then require more intensive intervention...

RE: For the cat experts!

Neil Wheadon — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 17:39:14 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]PS "an injection", in the owner's mind, is ALWAYS [a] essential and [b] the only definite cure for any disease known to vet. science....][/quote]

Sigh.... (not at you Anthony)

See the other thread I started on a pyrexic cat. NSAID, antibiotics? both have negatives. Will the cat get better on it's own? There is an expectation to get an injection because if the cat gets no better it might be used as a 'Why didn't you' though re-assurance does get easier and more accepted the older you get without injecting.

Neil