Copper supplement?

RE: Copper supplement?

Wren — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 14:56:34 GMT

It does still sound suspicious of Johne's to me, despite your testing. Do you have any idea what faecal excretion rates are like cf. cattle? Last time I was a large animal vet faecal PCR was not considered to be hugely more sensitive than culture (low shedding) - we were always told to believe a positive result, but not a negative result. I think I'd be inclined to run some paired serologies in preference.

And I'm with those people above who are scared of oral copper dosing!

RE: Copper supplement?

Marie Kubiak — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 08:23:52 GMT

[quote user="Seadna "]

I'm interested in your investigations so far. Have you worked up for internal parasites? Paramphistomum (rumen fluke) is becoming increasingly common where I am and seems to be impacting thrive big time especially this time of year. Is TB a consideration? Any other clinical signs? I love deer but know next-to-nothing about them. Do you have a big budget for diagnostics or is it fairly tight?

[/quote]

Repeated direct and flotation analysis of faeces from them all has been done both in house and by an external lab with only one case of coccidiosis (when new animals were brought in to reestablish the small herd after the old buck died following protracted illness of same nature).

I haven't specifically treated/tested for fluke but none were seen at post-mortem (n=1) - he had a perforated abomasal ulcer.

TB tests in previous group were always negative but only got done pre-movement if requested by receiving collection and there is no routine testing for deer. Pm showed no evidence grossly and histology (incl zn staining at my request due to Johnes concerns) didn't pick anything up.

Faecal PCR for Johnes negative on all three occasions we have tested. Bloods all fine in a few animals tested bar a debatably low copper at 8.8 (low normal by reindeer regerence values) in one animal at most recent testing last week. Faecal cultures unremarkable.

My thoughts are that it is probably dietary and we aren't getting sufficient fibre into them but they are hard to get eating new offerings and can't afford to go on hunger strike now. I do have some niggling concerns about Cervid wasting disease as this has now been identified (albeit rarely) in Scandanavia and these have mixed with imported animals prior to arrival with us. Chances are very slim but no pre-mortem testing is available.

No other clinical signs outside obvious GIT issues: poor condition, intermittent scour of varying severity and the worst affected shows intermittent bloat.

Diagnostics have reasonable budget (though not infinite), particularly now as the powers that be want reindeer in great condition for Christmas...

Marie

RE: Copper supplement?

Seadna — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 00:16:45 GMT

This sounds like a really interesting case, keep us updated if you can.

Oviboost gets used around where I am but it's a big mix of various bits and pieces of vits, mins etc.

Drenching Copper sulphate is cheap and easy but potentially terrifying (for me anyway).

RE: Copper supplement?

Catriona MacIntyre — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 21:16:57 GMT

Not sure if this is different from "Thrive" but:

http://www.agrilloyd.com/products/sheep/liquithrive-sheep.php

RE: Copper supplement?

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 21:04:12 GMT

You can drench with simple copper sulphate. I don't know how susceptible they are to toxicity so I would recommend caution. I would also recommend some liver biopsies if you are thinking copper issues to be sure. Not hard to do.

There's a heap of copper drenches, but not sure what you will find in your wholesaler catalogue

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nettex-Sheep-Conditioning-Drench-Supplement-/111907706790?var=411959545445&hash=item1a0e3817a6:m:motAuTBUdu3Ij8PielrQa4g

RE: Copper supplement?

Marie Kubiak — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 20:36:58 GMT

Thanks. They're on a formulated reindeer pellet diet and since they're so finicky with diet change I'm reluctant to do a sudden change but might have to keep that as a back up option. Or just catch them up for bolus administration once the velvet has gone completely and we have a few more people around.

RE: Copper supplement?

Emily Rainbow — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 20:33:00 GMT

I'm not aware of anything of hand. Are they receiving any hard feed at the moment? Might be worth considering changing onto something higher in copper that way? E.g. Sheep nuts rather than goat nuts?