Anestetising a dog w obs pro idiopathic epilepsy

RE: Anestetising a dog w obs pro idiopathic epilepsy

Aine Seavers — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 22:46:56 GMT

Suprelorin would be the ideal compromise as shows if castration will help with the seizures as increased risk in entire dogs, and if its hydrocephalus then may not be long for this world if owners quit early on. That said Proton pump inhibitors like Losec esp can be helpful in these hydrocephalic cases to control the frequency of the seizures and the low background pressure pain.

RE: Anestetising a dog w obs pro idiopathic epilepsy

Tomas Hansen — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 21:37:39 GMT

I have already a drone hovering above their house loaded with an aglepristone injection ready to launch.. That little fella is never gonna pride himself with any offspring if I have it my way ;-)

Jokes aside..

RE: Anestetising a dog w obs pro idiopathic epilepsy

Lucy Fleming — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 21:25:51 GMT

[quote user="Virginia Campbell"]Pessimist/cynic in me says be sure that your discussions include an estimate for a Caesarian section for the bitch with emphasis that payment is expected in full at the time, not "when they sell the pups". Estimate good and high. [/quote]

Ooh you are a cynic. I concur.

RE: Anestetising a dog w obs pro idiopathic epilepsy

Virginia Campbell — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 11:25:05 GMT

[quote user="Tomas Hansen"]

Definitively so..There is an ongoing discussion in the household.. at the moment the vote is 1 against 1.. (someone should teach the dogs to vote too.. but maybe it would just be 2 against 2 ;-)

the neutering plans has now been put on hold for the next 2-3 months, so I have some time to work on their opinions a bit :-)

[/quote]

Pessimist/cynic in me says be sure that your discussions include an estimate for a Caesarian section for the bitch with emphasis that payment is expected in full at the time, not "when they sell the pups". Estimate good and high.

RE: Anestetising a dog w obs pro idiopathic epilepsy

Tomas Hansen — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 09:56:12 GMT

..Because we do not have gas, and it works fine..

The owner requested a "real" castration, but its defo an option in this case!

RE: Anestetising a dog w obs pro idiopathic epilepsy

Tomas Hansen — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 12:23:52 GMT

Definitively so..There is an ongoing discussion in the household.. at the moment the vote is 1 against 1.. (someone should teach the dogs to vote too.. but maybe it would just be 2 against 2 ;-)

the neutering plans has now been put on hold for the next 2-3 months, so I have some time to work on their opinions a bit :-)

RE: Anestetising a dog w obs pro idiopathic epilepsy

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 10:17:26 GMT

[quote user="Tomas Hansen"]As they have an intact female also, one of them have to relinquish their fertility somehow.[/quote]So why don't they get the female spayed? A large number of positive benefits from that.

RE: Anestetising a dog w obs pro idiopathic epilepsy

Iain Richards — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 09:25:06 GMT

Out of curiosity, why dom/torb/ket for your castrate dogs?

Also, why not tardak him or suprelorin

Iain

RE: Anestetising a dog w obs pro idiopathic epilepsy

Tomas Hansen — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 07:37:05 GMT

Thanks so much for the vauable input. Guess I'll put him on Pexion and recommend a CT (thats the best we have up here, MRI is too far away), and postpone the castration. As they have an intact female also, one of them have to relinquish their fertility somehow... As for GA I think that it sounds right to pre him with diazepam/metadone and put him on Propofol as we do have an propofol pump.

RE: Anestetising a dog w obs pro idiopathic epilepsy

grumpyoldman — Sun, 13 Nov 2016 19:11:57 GMT

I remember the ACP thing being anecdotal and largely about GSDs 25-30 years ago ,not heard anything since. I would of thought Propofol induction was ideal and some O2 maintenance ,doing things on the needle will create cerebral hypoxia low BP lowered intracranial perfusion pressure, and possibly hypercapnia, cerebral acidosis. a bad set of circumstances for this dog and likely to increase its intracranial pressure.

RE: Anestetising a dog w obs pro idiopathic epilepsy

Rob Loxley — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 18:30:24 GMT

[quote user="Emily Rainbow"]ACP lowers seizure threshold[/quote]

Really? I thought it had been shown that the evidence for this statement is lacking?

Tobias K. M., Marioni-Henry K., Wagner R. (2006) A retrospective study on the use of acepromazine maleate in dogs with seizures. JAAHA 42, 283-9.

Garner J. L, Kirby R, Rudloff E. (2004) The use of acepromazine in dogs with a history of seizures. Abstract Presentation at International Veterinary Emergency and Critical Care

RE: Anestetising a dog w obs pro idiopathic epilepsy

Rob Loxley — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 18:25:53 GMT

[quote user="Tomas Hansen"]so far the data point to an intra-cranial cause of the seizures[/quote]

Worth considering hydrocephalus as cause of seizures given the breed?

[quote user="Tomas Hansen"]I plan on either waiting, and following somewhat longer before putting him on meds, or trying out Pexion to see if it does him any good, so currently he is not receiving anything.[/quote]

Consensus (http://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-015-0464-z) would be to start treatment for idiopathic epilepsy with this frequency of seizures

RE: Anestetising a dog w obs pro idiopathic epilepsy

Emily Rainbow — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 18:20:18 GMT

ACP lowers seizure threshold and propofol will decrease intracranial pressure.

My epilepsy patients get opiod pre med then co-induction diazepam and propofol with ISO maintenance but there is some benefit to dexdomitor but we don't routinely use alpha-2 agents so I've not fully explored it.

RE: Anestetising a dog w obs pro idiopathic epilepsy

Lucy Fleming — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 12:41:55 GMT

[quote user="Tomas Hansen"]Dexdomitor/Butorphanol/ketamin[/quote]

I would probably delay until the seizures are worked up a bit further. Am I correct in remembering that ketamine lowers seizure threshold? Or does it increase intracranial pressure? Either way I would probably stay away from ketamine in this patient.

RE: Anestetising a dog w obs pro idiopathic epilepsy

Martin Atkinson — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 11:22:55 GMT

I would question why the owner wants him castrated - there are actually very few good reasons to do it routinely. However if it was for medical or severe behavioural issues I wouldn't have an issue at all with my normal GA routine: pre-med butorphanol and medetomidine, GA propofol, maintain on isoflurane. Who knows castrating him might even improve the seizures - or make them worse!!

RE: Anestetising a dog w obs pro idiopathic epilepsy

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 10:18:00 GMT

Stabilise his epilepsy 1st. I'd say castration was well down my list of priorities on this 1

Wynne

RE: Anestetising a dog w obs pro idiopathic epilepsy

Thomas Johnson — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 09:17:58 GMT

[quote user="Tomas Hansen"]

An owner to a small 2 year old franch bulldog / Chihuahua cross has asked me whether it is safe to anestetise him for castration. He has had 3 real seizures during the past 2 months, the debut of these being in September. I have only started investigating him this week, and so far the data point to an intra-cranial cause of the seizures. I plan on either waiting, and following somewhat longer before putting him on meds, or trying out Pexion to see if it does him any good, so currently he is not receiving anything.

We do dog castrates here on Dexdomitor/Butorphanol/ketamin (no gas). Would it be safer to do him on gas?

Thankful for your thoughts :-)

[/quote]

Unless there's a medical or behavioural reason to want to castrate him I would want to control the seizures first, and with 3 seizures in 2 months I would be looking to start anti-seizure medication and would happily try Pexion first. On the other hand if you referred him they would quite happily GA him for an MRI scan so I don't think it is a big risk if you did decide to go ahead with the castration.