Immunocompromised Kittens?

RE: Immunocompromised Kittens?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 11 Nov 2016 18:02:40 GMT

Very depressing thread

Wynne

RE: Immunocompromised Kittens?

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 11 Nov 2016 16:49:20 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Don't they listen to your advice on disease control, the carrier state and herd health?[/quote]

Yes they do, and these cats were isolated and treated. They tend to give treatment a go, an if it's not improving things then PTS. I've had a lot of kittens that have been ill when young and once treated effectively had no further problems.

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Actually, to be fair, in this modern EBVM age, are many "unwanted kittens or cats" PTS these days, or does availability [I hesitate to use "supply"] match demand?[/quote]

Yes, they are. At the Greater Manchester Animal Hospital (GMAH) they are full to bursting as its the drop off point for all the North West Inspectorate. Anything sneezing or looking fluey is euthanased. My friend used to work there, she put 26 kittens to sleep in one day once (Though her record was 70-odd guinea pigs in an afternoon, but that's a different story).

RE: Immunocompromised Kittens?

Anthony Todd — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 18:46:55 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]Not my call Anthony, up to the shelter to decide that.[/quote]

Don't they listen to your advice on disease control, the carrier state and herd health?

Actually, to be fair, in this modern EBVM age, are many "unwanted kittens or cats" PTS these days, or does availability [I hesitate to use "supply"] match demand?

Would any of us advise taking a kitten with this history?

RE: Immunocompromised Kittens?

Kate Richardson — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 18:39:35 GMT

Anthony DennisonI usually don't do the normal faecal screens (parasites, aerobic + anaerobic culture) as they always come back with nothing. I did the infectious disease PCR panel this time in case it could have been coronavirus or something else a little weird.

i think faecal flotation is prob the most useful, and prob cheaper for the shelter, esp if you do it yourself. (Not that I do, I highly allergic to microscopes)

RE: Immunocompromised Kittens?

Kate Richardson — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 18:37:15 GMT

Would you put kittens on doxycycline?

Yes, I agree with david,

RE: Immunocompromised Kittens?

David Mills — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 17:27:54 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]Would you put kittens on doxycycline? [/quote]

Yes. The tooth discolouration which is oft-spouted is IME rare, and in any case, insignificant.

Doxy will do everything, more quickly than amoxiclav, and is also anti-inflammatory in the respiratory tract. Also, SID dosing greatly improves compliance (amoxiclav BID wouldn't normally get given at q12h in most shelters, but more like 9am and 4pm). Amoxiclav needs 4-6 weeks to clear Chlamydia, for instance (c.f. 21 days for doxy).

RE: Immunocompromised Kittens?

Anthony Dennison — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 16:44:22 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]early euthanasia of all infected kittens, and probably the queen, seems both sensible and humane.[/quote]

Not my call Anthony, up to the shelter to decide that.

RE: Immunocompromised Kittens?

Anthony Todd — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 14:39:42 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]Would you have just gone for doxy for everything? [/quote]

Sorry, with cat overpopulation

risk of permanent disability

and/or a carrier state in a concentrated population [cattery]

to say nothing of ongoing suffering, or at least discomfit in infected animals under treatment

early euthanasia of all infected kittens, and probably the queen, seems both sensible and humane.

[see current Cruciate thread....]

RE: Immunocompromised Kittens?

Anthony Dennison — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 12:24:50 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]How old are they? Good weights or underweight? Sounds like their immune systems have had a bit of a hammering so far so highly some immunocompromise, but not necessarily immunosupressed if that makes sense?[/quote]

They are now about 10-12 weeks old. All good weights. The first kitten to die was about 4 or 5 weeks ago and he was a bit runty. One of the others, that was pretty sickly, was also quite runty but he's looking normal next to the rest of the litter now.

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]

FeLV/FIV negative?

[/quote]

The one that was PTS over the weekend was tested, negative for both so I suspect the rest of them will be too.

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]Any history on mum? [/quote]

Kittens came in to the shelter almost weaned with mum, they were separated and then mum got mild cat flu that cleared up quite quickly with meloxicam and doxycycline. She then also got diarrhoea, which cleared up with 5 days of 50mg/kg fenbendazole and a diet change (attempted TMPS with her but she went mental trying to get Septrin down).

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]Yes coronavirus could be responsible for the diarrhoea, has that resolved now? In the abscence of protozoa on the faecal sample, it's likely the diarrhoea resolved and was nothing to do with the TMPS.....[/quote]

In the most part diarrhoea has resolved. Occasionally get a couple of days of looser stools (grade 3-4) but I suspect it might be linked to them being overfed...

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]Several recent CPDs I have been on really don't like the 'diarrhoea' panels- testing for lots of things of questionable significance. I agree. Just my opinion. [/quote]

I usually don't do the normal faecal screens (parasites, aerobic + anaerobic culture) as they always come back with nothing. I did the infectious disease PCR panel this time in case it could have been coronavirus or something else a little weird.

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]Wouldn't have thought coronavirus was responsible for the resp signs, you said you gave low dose fenbendazole- what dose? I'd probably repeat and monitor closely. Poss some doxycycline if you feel an antibiotic is warranted[/quote]

50mg/kg for 5 days of fenbendazole. Would you put kittens on doxycycline? Had a nightmare recently at the shelter, one whole section of the cattery got 'flu. I tried to avoid using antibiotics for as long as possible but eventually just had to blanket treat everything for ages. Adult cats got doxy, kittens got amoxyclav. Would you have just gone for doxy for everything?

RE: Immunocompromised Kittens?

Joyce Whitehead — Wed, 09 Nov 2016 20:20:02 GMT

What about Sulfatrim suspension? Not used it myself but licensed for bearded dragons, pigeons and reptiles.

RE: Immunocompromised Kittens?

Bob Russell — Wed, 09 Nov 2016 15:30:28 GMT

I still have a box of Forgastrin in the cupboard. Mix in enough (¼ teaspoon) with each meal to turn it all black. Has helped me out of difficulties quite a number of times.

RE: Immunocompromised Kittens?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 09 Nov 2016 14:10:07 GMT

[quote user="janine redman"]This particular rescue centre also ended up with a percentage of FIP cats later on.[/quote]This is something I'm particularly aware of and I suspect a lot of kittens are carrying FCoV. If they are unwell especially with diarrhoea I will advise delaying vaccination, because in my (anecdotal) experience a proportion of these will convert into full blown FIP IMO due to overload on the immune system. It may all be tosh but I think it is a sensible precaution.

RE: Immunocompromised Kittens?

janine redman — Tue, 08 Nov 2016 19:09:40 GMT

When we had a local rescue centre we had lots of coronavirus which presented as both GI and respiratory infection. So without maternal antibody protection it might be the problem here. However treating secondary bacterial infection may be required if they are immunocompromised. This particular rescue centre also ended up with a percentage of FIP cats later on.

RE: Immunocompromised Kittens?

Kate Richardson — Tue, 08 Nov 2016 19:06:30 GMT

How old are they? Good weights or underweight? Sounds like their immune systems have had a bit of a hammering so far so highly some immunocompromise, but not necessarily immunosupressed if that makes sense? FeLV/FIV negative?

Any history on mum?

Parasites would have to be high on the list for the kittens with respiratory signs that were PTSd- possibly inflammatory reaction secondary to parasite deaths and secondary bacterial infections? Hard to say without a PM.

Yes coronavirus could be responsible for the diarrhoea, has that resolved now? In the abscence of protozoa on the faecal sample, it's likely the diarrhoea resolved and was nothing to do with the TMPS.....

Several recent CPDs I have been on really don't like the 'diarrhoea' panels- testing for lots of things of questionable significance. I agree. Just my opinion.

Wouldn't have thought coronavirus was responsible for the resp signs, you said you gave low dose fenbendazole- what dose? I'd probably repeat and monitor closely. Poss some doxycycline if you feel an antibiotic is warranted