How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Braden Collins — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 05:48:54 GMT

When I was a vet student, I did work experience at the zoo. The painted dogs were fed horse meat from a horse which had been euthanased with pentobarbitone. this managed to kill two of the dogs, and the other was anaesthetised for several days.

there were a lot of questions about how the horse managed to get passed as fit for pet food as they are only meant to take horses which had been shot. Anyway, oral pentobarbitone can certainly knock them out if they eat enough.

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 23:17:22 GMT

If the animal's welfare is not suffering then it's not really our problem.

If we are talking a genuine danger to people then I'd shoot it. Have shot a few wild cows over the years, and even a feral horse once.....

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Suzanne Kelly — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 23:12:14 GMT

I've done the inject pentobarb into raw sausages trick for a savage, it worked brilliantly

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Anthony Todd — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 22:25:41 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"] Thoughts?[/quote]

Just for all your first or future "situations", which could be tomorrow!

Could you not inject pentobarb, or your favourite cocktail, beneath the "skin" of a raw sausage then feed it to the beast?

[Mixing it with dog food would leave a lot of it not mixed, I would have thought?]

What sort of dose [ml/lb or Kg] is enough, bearing in mind the difficulties if you don't use enough....?

My savage guard dog would have had me after 12x25mg Acp, and it seemed flat out! [not the mad bitch in the horse box]

How much of what drug, or drugs, in 2016, if you are faced with my "stable door" situation and an "oral" squirt is the only practical way?

Some indications of dose rate might save someone's serious injuries in the future.

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Neil Wheadon — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 20:06:21 GMT

[quote user="joanne mcallister"]I have given pentoject mixed with cream cheese and a/d to a large, aggressive GSD that I couldn't get close to even after Sedalin/phenobarbitone mix. After about 15 minutes he was sedated enough for me to to inject[/quote]

Reading through these, this seems to be the best method as it involves minimal contact with the dog.

So the follow up, is the quantity used? 1ml/kg? or 0.5ml/kg

Thoughts?

Neil

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Silvia Maldonado — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 02:53:36 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

I had to PTS a mad, really mad, Alsatian bitch with pups loose in an empty stable box in a schoolyard, back in the day, c. 1970.

Suggestions please then I'll tell you what I did.

[/quote]

I still wonder how on Earth did you manage to catch her

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

bob lehner — Mon, 24 Oct 2016 21:30:11 GMT

[quote user="joanne mcallister"]

I have given pentoject mixed with cream cheese and a/d to a large, aggressive GSD that I couldn't get close to even after Sedalin/phenobarbitone mix. After about 15 minutes he was sedated enough for me to to inject.

[/quote]

I saw a TV prog on Dignitas, the Swiss euth. place, a while back.

Death is invoked by drinking a tumbler full of pentobarbitone. (They do give an enti-emetic first).

Nice and peaceful.

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

joanne mcallister — Mon, 24 Oct 2016 15:15:59 GMT

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Lucy Fleming — Mon, 24 Oct 2016 15:01:00 GMT

[quote user="Aine Seavers"]The dose I read was 50mg for less than 4kg, 100mg over that[/quote]

I've heard of it but not tried it - partly as I've not been clear on a dose rate, and partly because we don't keep it in stock. We don't have that many 'untouchable' cats either, but it's an intriguing idea. Do you have any written sources at all?

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Aine Seavers — Sun, 23 Oct 2016 23:04:52 GMT

yep, the valium really tops them out. We started adding the gabapentin into the triad, not sure if its an anti-anxiety effect or generally sleepyness but that has worked well.

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Aine Seavers — Sun, 23 Oct 2016 23:01:54 GMT

The dose I read was 50mg for less than 4kg, 100mg over that. I use gabapentin for other things in cats- usually compounded now because of issues with clients opening the capsule and it being irritant to eyes note on data sheet-tho i just break it into food for my own cat if his arthritis flares up beyond his normal regime of meds. He looks out of it but as always a sweet cat then cant judge from him

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Anthony Todd — Sun, 23 Oct 2016 17:56:22 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Or chuck the doctored food over the bottom door

Wynne

[/quote]

So she'd immediately eat it would she?

Or take the hint and clear the door?

You decide; I did.....

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 23 Oct 2016 17:33:15 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]

Harder to get a licence for dart gun/blow pipe than a firearm.

[/quote]

Not sure that's true for vets, I had no problem. The police have been quite happy adding the dart guns onto the rest of the vets FACs on a just in case basis.

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Noweia — Sun, 23 Oct 2016 14:51:39 GMT

Not heard of giving Gaba to fractious cats. What dose is used?

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Charlotte Marshall — Sun, 23 Oct 2016 14:38:34 GMT

I've used the acp/phenobarb orally method given the owners a big dose to give in food at home before bringing or us going out. I did have one occasion where I arrived to find the owners outside the house and the dog still barking at the window. I wasn't sure if it simply had not had sufficient time for it to work but we shoved some bread and butter through the door with some Valium on and it knocked it out on top of the rest!

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 23 Oct 2016 11:47:01 GMT

Or chuck the doctored food over the bottom door

Wynne

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Anthony Todd — Sun, 23 Oct 2016 09:21:07 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Anthony How did you inject without opening the door?

I really can't work that one out

Wynne

[/quote]

This was, as i said, a mad alsatian bitch "guarding" her pups loose in an old stable box, in what was then a school in N16 around 1970.

This was the one and only time i used cyanide for the reasons i have described.

As it leaped at me i squirted the solution into its open mouth.....

I suppose she didn't jump the lower half door as she wanted to stay with her pups?

Do you really think opening the door, even slightly, was a good idea???

Now i'd do the same, but use some of the modern drugs, as posted, and now available.

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 23 Oct 2016 08:55:38 GMT

Anthony How did you inject without opening the door?

I really can't work that one out

Wynne

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Aine Seavers — Sun, 23 Oct 2016 00:07:37 GMT

Most times there is no hurry so why rush. The dog is not in any danger as such, only the humans around it so everyone needs to back off and let the animal calm down. I wouldn't have opened the stable door for a day if needs be until dog calmer and hungry for food. If owner turns up to clinic as a non-appt but can at least handle the dog on the lead themselves, then we send them home to prepare the dog or if appt booked then they come down that morning and collect the 'premeds'.

We give the owner a mix of valium/acp/phenbarb/gabapentin(latter more recent addition)-leave in fridge for 15mins- add to raw mince meal- feed the dog- wait 1/2 hr, take to clinic, add our check chain and lead to their set-never trust an owners gear but dont remove it either-then no complaints after.

if dog can be muzzled-taken inside through the quiet back door of the clinic where we have a small alcove and bench- dog against a wall and 5mls zoletil sc but basically intra dog then owner either stays there with dog or they take it back into their Ute or 4wheel drive/estate back end which is usually caged effectively from rest of car (as a road standard), dog relaxes and after 15mins we come back out and give i/v lethabarb.

If cant muzzle then we dont take inside but have a large steel hoop outside where they can be lead slipped onto- its quiet and outdoors so if any faecal/urine explodes out of dog but not an issue often if premedicated-but if so easy to hose down-and again the zoletil sc.

We charge per ml for the zoletil and for the tablets.

Lethabarb in milk also works very well and apparently cats love tomato soup so another option to add it to. Dispose of bowl after used for this purpose.

You can leave the muzzle on the dog whole way through if u want as they dont vomit.

We did a lot of pitbull dog work for the police back in the 90s-some enormous dogs-one came in a lion cage!! it had pulled a police horse down by the nose after jumping from a moving car. Some scary dogs often physically heavier than a lot of the staff so you learnt to take your time and work around reducing the strength and anxiety and fight in the dog-and because it worked, the police preferred that approach as less stressful and dangerous to all, we ended up with more and more work. In those days we used the premed cocktail without gabapentin orally in food and then administered what was known as the London cocktail, Rompun/acp/dom intra dog and waited. Any muzzle was taken off those dogs, tested cautiously once recumbent and then remuzzle to avoid Rompun Rage or Domitor rage where they suddenly come to-leap up, bite and then fall back down again. Cephalic/Saph as the vet choose.

Fractious cats- How many folks are using gabapentin the night before and the morning of a vet clinic visit-its gaining popularity in USA, reports seem really good re being able to handle the normally pyscho/feral cat so would be interested on some feedback on that.

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Anthony Todd — Sat, 22 Oct 2016 14:08:24 GMT

Not trying to score points or win, but if you need it it's too late.....

Would have saved a vet's cheek!

It was the human "Scoline", Trade names‎: ‎Quelicin, Anectine and came in a 2ml vial, I think.

Used it once or twice in 10+ years and very glad I had it available.

S/C anywhere you can, not painful S/C. Works in 5 minutes, surprisingly.

Hope it saves someone an injury.

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 22 Oct 2016 13:11:04 GMT

OK Anthony. You win. Your method is best.

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Anthony Todd — Sat, 22 Oct 2016 12:54:02 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"] 100% agreement with Gillian. Also, I'd sooner open the door the width of a food bowl, stick the dinner in and retreat than try to get close enough to inject.[/quote]

Bit naive and very dangerous; that dog would have charged through the stable door in a flash.... into a school full of schoolchildren and staff.

[I was scared it would leap over the stable door!]

I wonder how many dangerous dogs have been semi-asphyxiated on the modern dog-catcher?

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Anthony Todd — Sat, 22 Oct 2016 12:48:43 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Probably not. As long as you're on a ventilator. I doubt slow asphyxiation is nice though.[/quote]

Read what I said!

When the dog drops; I/V pentobarb; it's preloaded!

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 22 Oct 2016 08:51:11 GMT

100% agreement with Gillian. Also, I'd sooner open the door the width of a food bowl, stick the dinner in and retreat than try to get close enough to inject.

Wynne

RE: How do you put an aggressive dog to sleep?

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 22 Oct 2016 07:39:25 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Muscle relaxant, judging by my human anaesthetist's conscious caesarean experience, wasn't unpleasant per se[/quote]

Probably not. As long as you're on a ventilator. I doubt slow asphyxiation is nice though.