Inducing vomiting in cats

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 12:13:53 GMT

[quote user="Aine Seavers"]never hear the noun 'midden'before, [/quote]

Almost synonymous with dung heap and indeed it would often have been exactly that. I can think of a few places where you can still see a proper 19th century farmyard with the brick built midden in the centre. Really a midden would have been more than a dung heap, it would have taken kitchen and any perishable waste, so a compost heap just as much. Like a muck heap in a stable yard, it shouldn't just be a rubbish pile, it has to be properly managed.

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 10:05:01 GMT

[quote user="Aine Seavers"]never hear the noun 'midden'before,[/quote]Its in the dictionary! I tend to use it refer to an impromptu lavatory dug into earth or snow when camping in remote areas climbing or trekking.

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Aine Seavers — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 23:02:04 GMT

never hear the noun 'midden'before, only the term middening as a cat behaviour- is it a dirt pile or dump ?

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Aine Seavers — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 22:58:00 GMT

intra testicle apparently still being done routinely in Sth Africa and other larger areas where the animal is captured and released post op- so as to remove the risks in recovery etc. There is also a paper on injection local into dog testicles and operating after 3mins to quickly remove the testicles-on the same principle of returning the dog conscious to its open environment.

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Rob Loxley — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 19:57:27 GMT

[quote user="Rob Davis"]Why would you want to put apomorphine in the eye when it works so well by SC injection?[/quote]

AFAIK it's an americanism, where injectable apo wasn't available?

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 18:07:51 GMT

[quote user="robin scott"]Along came the farm/house dog/cat and you can imagine the end result. Took a lot of explaining!! [/quote]I was waiting for that one, I've seen it as well.

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

robin scott — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 18:00:47 GMT

Used to use it a lot in larger pigs and always advised farmers to burn the testes. It's surprising how many just threw them on the midden or buried them - not too deeply. Along came the farm/house dog/cat and you can imagine the end result. Took a lot of explaining!! Dignitas sweetbreads !!

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 17:19:53 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]It reminds me of a vet I saw practice with who used to induce anaesthetic in bullocks for castration by injecting pentobarbitone into a testicle and when he chopped them off removed the source of anaesthetic. I doubt you'd get taught that now![/quote]

I've heard of vets doing that with pigs, but not with cattle. Not sure it's something I'm going to start recommending though!

[/quote]

Bad idea. If you do that you can't eat the testes for dinner.

[/quote]

Or they could be served for lunch at Dignitas?

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 16:42:25 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]

I've heard of vets doing that with pigs, but not with cattle. Not sure it's something I'm going to start recommending though!

[/quote]

Bad idea. If you do that you can't eat the testes for dinner.

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 14:31:33 GMT

I've heard of vets doing that with pigs, but not with cattle. Not sure it's something I'm going to start recommending though!

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 14:14:39 GMT

Well the theory was that you can rinse it out once the cat has vomited to reduce further action but if it has been absorbed enough to make it vomit there's probably not any left there anyway to rinse out.

It reminds me of a vet I saw practice with who used to induce anaesthetic in bullocks for castration by injecting pentobarbitone into a testicle and when he chopped them off removed the source of anaesthetic. I doubt you'd get taught that now!

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Rob Davis — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 13:51:19 GMT

Why would you want to put apomorphine in the eye when it works so well by SC injection?

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

ChrisBVSc — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 23:42:52 GMT

Never heard of the apomorphine in the eyes trick, I've also never tried giving the drug to cats having always been told not to (but sounds like it's maybe just an assumed lack of efficacy rather than any actual risk in giving?)

So can anyone provide a nice easy dose in drops per eye per cat?? (and presumably it's the neat stuff out of the vial you're using?)

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Kate Richardson — Sun, 23 Oct 2016 17:17:46 GMT

Very useful info re apomorphine thanks

I use medetomidine as a premed in most cases now- very low doses of 0.01-0.02mls/kg- very effective and it doesn't collapse the veins like the traditional doses.

no difference found in ga stability/bp compared to previously acp/opioid, much less stressful all round, so better for cats and nurses. Actually works out cheaper too as less induction agent needed (alfaxan used here). Started using it on Young neuters initially but now using it more and more for any cat ga including elderly cats

occasionally makes them vomit but I presume it's the ones with food in their stomachs and not those who have empty stomachs in first place but I don't know for certain. If I had time I'd scan them pre op and let you know!

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Charlotte Marshall — Sun, 23 Oct 2016 14:46:39 GMT

Interesting, I had heard that the reason for not using apomorphine in cats was because it was ineffective in them.

For sedation for euthanasia in cats I give acp/ket subcutaneously it works in 2 -3 minutes and doesn't flatten the vein for the euthatal!

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Julie Lavis — Sun, 23 Oct 2016 09:43:58 GMT

Can I ask for clarification on the form of apomorphine being used in the eye of the cat? In New Zealand apomorphine was (and probably still is) available as a powdery tablet, which was great for putting into the conjunctival sac of dogs and then could be flushed away with saline after the dog had vomited. In the UK I have only come across injectable apomorphine given by subcutaneous injection. Are you using injectable liquid apomorphine dropped onto the cat's eye?

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

mariette asselbergs — Sat, 22 Oct 2016 19:40:24 GMT

I had a cat in had eaten lilly leaves. Did not vomit with xylazine, not with medetomidine (fellv asleep and had to be woken up with atipamazole), and then in desperation gave apomorphine in the conjunctivas of the eye and hey presto, bunch of leaves out!

Mariette

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Aine Seavers — Sat, 22 Oct 2016 02:52:13 GMT

I use zoletil s/c and wait a few mins- if you change the needle before you inject then no stinging-cat/dog drifts off and you can euthanise peacefully. I definitely think the link to increased guarantee of vomiting in cats with Domitor is whether they have been feed food as opposed to ingested small but potent toxin.

Why do you think xylazine no longer works-has it changed formulation/generic over there?. Apo in

Apo in cats-would be interesting to see peer papers on the concerns or was it simply a factor of overdose that got it the bad name?

Off tangent -I have seen lignocaine induce seizures-at quite smaller doses in cats and at crazy doses in dog-but used at specifies specific low doses then obviously it is very very safe. The dental sessions over here though have also showed some horrific injuries from nerve blocks in dogs but esp in cats blocked beyond the post -op recovery- bilateral blocks a bigger risk so using any local before you first induce trauma and ensuring worn off by time animal around is the aim. I was therefore interested to read elsewhere on this forum that tongue mutilation post block in the pets hasnt been a concern for the UK vets.

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Karen Eggleton — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 23:11:53 GMT

Would agree that you get vomiting with medetomidine in cats pre euth. Long ago gave up using it for this reason. Going off at a tangent, why not use midazolam and ketamine combined for pre euth sed in cats. Works smoothly, no horrible retching.

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Noweia — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 21:46:45 GMT

We use Cerenia inj to stop the vomiting after Apomorphine, seems to work.

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

peter chalkley — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 16:28:23 GMT

[quote user="Eilidh Corr"]Xylazine works a treat[/quote]

until 4m ago I would agree, but we have had a few not vomit! very very sad times

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Thomas Johnson — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 12:10:20 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I've just past this by my head nurse in case I'm missing something as I'm not the one who cleans the kennels but she says that, at most, 1% of cats vomit after medetomidine either at pre-med or sedation dose. I don't know what you guys are doing but its not something I would reach for as an emetic.[/quote]

I agree that it is very rare for cats that have been given a medetomidine pre-med to vomit, the ones that vomit when given it for sedation before euthanasia usually bring up a large volume of food, so I assume it's more potent as an emetic if the stomach is full.

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Lucy Fleming — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 09:53:19 GMT

[quote user="Emily Rainbow"]I have also heard of using butorphanol to block the vomiting if continuing too long although I've not had one go for more than 5mins of dry retching and then settle down.[/quote]

I have used cerenia on a couple of occasions where owners were extremely concerned about ongoing vomiting. I suspect naturally stopped by the time the cerenia was absorbed anyway. I did hear a possibly apocryphal anecdote about a dog that had had cerenia and then ate something inadvisable, and apomorphine supposedly was not effective while maropitant on board. Hopefully unlikely to be a common situation even if it is true.

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Aine Seavers — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 09:07:32 GMT

Yes, totally correct-more I have nt ever use the Yoh but the purest suggested they preferred it for xylazine. Have use the Antisedan for the dogs who ate Preventic tick collars and just titrated to effect I wanted-that worked well so can't see why they would not be interchangable.

RE: Inducing vomiting in cats

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 08:54:36 GMT

[quote user="Aine Seavers"]Re Xylazine -Domitor at least can be reversed whereas Yom has been hard to get sometimes for xylazine.[/quote]You can reverse xylazine with atepamezole exactly the same as medetomidine, it works perfectly, they are both alpha 2 agonists