Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Anthony Todd — Thu, 29 Sep 2016 09:59:05 GMT

Yes. I had a "smart move" to use table salt to create thirst in FUS cats, only to read the label to find that they add Mg to table salt to make it flow....... so we bought analytical NaCl but never got round to prescribing it.....

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 29 Sep 2016 09:37:00 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Could be, the unfortunate thing is that, in a smart effort to prevent struvite, the manufacturers added NH4Cl to acidify the urine[/quote]My understanding was that initially they added salt to the food to make the cats drink more and thus dilute the urine and make the struvite crystals less likely to precipitate out which could then result in another set of issues.

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Anthony Todd — Thu, 29 Sep 2016 09:22:59 GMT

Could be, the unfortunate thing is that, in a smart effort to prevent struvite, the manufacturers added NH4Cl to acidify the urine thereby precipitating oxalate so make sure you've got struvite and not oxalate which took me a while, in fact never[!] when it first happened in the early 70s.

This is an indication:

Fibre One Cereal 142 Bran Flakes 141 White Rice (steamed) 2.1

So "cereal" is high in Mg++ and oxalate!!

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 29 Sep 2016 09:17:41 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Yes, GoCat, being the first and VERY palatable dried food started it all off as it was high in Mg++ and they were all struvite. This was a table Jackson sent me at the time which I copied and gave to clients[/quote]Thanks for that Anthony I can send it to Purina as evidence. This is exactly my experience which is why I am so wary of it. But I still find that when questioned the vast majority of owners with blocked cats say that they feed at least a proportion of the diet of as Go-cat. My anecdotal impression still is that, despite Go-cat being the most popular brand, this proportion is greater than the the statistically expected occurrence.

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Laurence Webb — Thu, 29 Sep 2016 00:01:07 GMT

Thanks!

With modern diets, where Mg is generally lower I think water intake is as at least as important as the food fed - I advise all owners with recurrent FUS to head to a wet food diet as far as possible.

Difficult in some instances - for example one of my cats does not even consider wet food to be edible and will only eat dry. Cat psychology is a major issue as well!

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Anthony Todd — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 23:52:46 GMT

Dry matter.

This magnifies the dry food Mg++ intake as, per stomach full, the dried food contains more Mg++ 'cos it is already dry.

So for FUS cats wet food, or low ionic[?] cat milk, to increase water intake is essential. [not sure of the oxalate content of "cat milk though]

Extra water intake is now emphasised in humans too.

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Laurence Webb — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 23:41:19 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"] This was a table Jackson sent me at the time which I copied and gave to clients[/quote]Interesting. Do you know if that was based on 'as fed' or on a dry matter basis?

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Anthony Todd — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 22:36:14 GMT

PS I saw FUS in NZ where "stoneformers" were fed on fish, even before dried foods were thought of.

Who would ever have guessed that cats would eat what was sort of biscuit!!!!

[Er, remember silver solid metal cat catheters!!]

This is the problem the dry food manufacturers have:

Wheat bran, crude Magnesium: 566mg per 100g

Rice bran, crude Magnesium: 494mg

Oat bran, cooked Magnesium: 200mg

Oat bran, raw Magnesium: 191mg etc. etc.

and even the Mg++ in fish and beef causes struvite stones in stone formers!

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Anthony Todd — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 22:29:30 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]I used to see lots of cats on Go kat getting blocked.[/quote]

Yes, GoCat, being the first and VERY palatable dried food started it all off as it was high in Mg++ and they were all struvite. This was a table Jackson sent me at the time which I copied and gave to clients

This

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Stephen Courtney — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 22:00:44 GMT

I used to see lots of cats on Go kat getting blocked. much less prevalent now.

I'm not convinced the blocks were due to Go kat per se - the same could be said of cats fed Iams as well.

i think the issue was that both foods are very popular, therefore the proportion of cats with urolithiasis on those foods was relatively high. These days i believe I see less urolithiasis based on struvite and or oxalate than we used to, and more simple spasm cases, but overall far fewer blocks come my way.

I would never blame a food brand on a blockage because it cannot be proven, the client is quite likely to go to Purina/ whoever to try get some recompense, and if Purina wants to nail your hide to the wall they can and will.

Personally i advise all clients to feed there cats no more than 50% dry food as a proportion of intake, and FLUTD cats i prefer to come right off dry food forever.

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Francisco Gomez — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 21:35:45 GMT

I see similar issues in dogs (not blocking/uroliths but skin/overweight/intestinal) and often find that they are fed in Bakers complete. Of course I dont say that the problem is definitely this (dont have aby facts!) But I tend to move them to other foods, sometimes from the same brand but higher quality (ie Purina One?)... I feel that it might be a relation but it might be subjective because I dont have any hard evidence to back it up!

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Eamon McAllister — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 21:25:07 GMT

Martin - I used to see lots of male cats with blocked bladders which had been fed on Go Cat. I have just checked this out with a colleague who confirmed similar experiences with cats fed on the stuff and when a client complained to Purina they were very dismissive and said that the vet was talking nonsense.

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Stephanie Wellings — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 20:02:14 GMT

One of the nurses at my practice swears Iams is associated (apparently there are bouts of blocked cats if its on offer...), I think it's big fat black cats that always get it, so I think we all probably generalise from our own experience.

As long as you present it as anecdotal ('I find lots of cats I see with this are fed X') I can't see what's wrong in sharing this with owners. It also might be fine to feed in most cats but in prone cats it just tips them over the edge (similar to some dogs needing lower fat food than a a normal dog because in them if flares up pancreatitis). If Purina has a robust clinical trial which proves there isn't a higher risk compared with other foods, then they might have grounds to be annoyed, but I would be inclined to say the burden of proof is on them.

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Anthony Todd — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 19:52:15 GMT

Nah, nothing to do with the food, that's 60s information, it's definitely just stress related.

Buy the cat an iPad, a climbing frame or read it stories.

The problem will go away!

Don't you mod-vets read recent research or publications any more.....................................?

[sigh] don't start me again on FUS and the originator: GO CAT!

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Laura Kidd — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 19:36:20 GMT

The clinical history belongs to the practice but the client can request to see it under the Data Protection Act 1998.

Agree, however, that you should not divulge the case details unless owner has given consent.

Laura

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Lindsey Edwards — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 19:02:53 GMT

My own cat only develops issues when fed a particular brand of dry food (not go cat). I think the association may be coincidental/individualised per cat but if I don't feed it to her she shows no signs, if I do she does (3-4times over 12months; no recurrence since withdrawn 3years ago). I have treated many client cats for similar presentations, some fed the brand which does not agree with my cat, many fed other brands. I would not dream of blaming the brand but do advise owners if condition recurs to try to change brand to another - preferably wet, possibly urinary, at least anything other than what they were on!

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 18:24:17 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]I think I would get on to VDS pronto.[/quote]I was thinking more filing a adverse reaction report to VMD actually!

I don't think telling one person that IME Go-cat is frequently implicated in urolithiasis is going to go far, its not as if I've pronounced it as a fact that Go-cat causes the problem in my Pet's Corner page in the local rag!

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 17:12:43 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

PS to this: the Purina person has requested a copy of the clinical history. I have said no way until I have written consent from the owner and even then I'm disinclined to do so. What would others do?

[/quote]

I think I would get on to VDS pronto.

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 16:40:37 GMT

Can't say I've noticed any issues with any particular brand of pet food tbh. I certainly wouldn't tell an owner that their pet's problem is caused by their choice of food unless I could back it up with evidence. They are bound to try to make a claim for the vet fees against the company. Good luck with that one!!!

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]PS to this: the Purina person has requested a copy of the clinical history. I have said no way until I have written consent from the owner and even then I'm disinclined to do so. What would others do?[/quote]

The clinical history belongs to the owner- it is up to them who sees it, and that is what I would tell Purina. If the owners do wish Purina to have a copy, I'm not sure you can refuse.

RE: Prevalence of urolithiasis in cats fed on Go Cat

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 16:32:23 GMT