Spaying to prevent unwanted litters

RE: Spaying to prevent unwanted litters

Stephen Courtney — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 21:52:49 GMT

When a dog gives birth luteolysis is well underway, so progesterone levels have declined abruptly anyway. So spaying doesn't affect that, and the prolactin comes from the pituitary.

The issue with feeding post caesar is the same for a caesar as for a caesar-spay - if the bitch is sore she might not allow it, and the pups might interfere with the wound. So management issues really, but caesars are never a benign low risk procedure.

personally i find it easier to spay at caesar than sew the uterus back up....

RE: Spaying to prevent unwanted litters

Richard Carter — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 14:02:20 GMT

was thought to have a slight risk re ongoing lactation but I've never seen a problem with this as long as pups continue to stimulate mammary tissue - the oestrogen and progesterone phases in mammary development should be finished by time of caesar/ parturition?

RE: Spaying to prevent unwanted litters

Nicola Cole — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 22:16:23 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]

Post operatively there is only a risk of false pregnancy/ galactorrhoea if spayed later in pregnancy, towards / after the midway point anyway, and these situations are expected to resolve with modern treatments such as cabergoline.

[/quote]

Slight tangent from me (but probably not enough to warrant its own thread!)-if spaying at the time of a c-section would you expect any concerns after spay due to hormonal balance at time?

RE: Spaying to prevent unwanted litters

Stephen Courtney — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 20:54:59 GMT

Thanks for the input - i am pleased to find I'm not out on a limb regarding my standing on this.

Basically the consensus is that spaying after the season and/or in early pregnancy is not much harder than a normal spay, and certainly not dangerous to the bitch. the uterus isn't more friable, but blood vessels may be larger - which makes them easier to tie off IMO...

The BSAVA manual says there is no difference between full OVH and ovariectomy in early pregnancy either - i do most of my bitch spays as ovariectomy only these days so that's good to know.

Personally if the client wants the bitch spayed I'd much rather spay straight after the season than use alizin - I don't like the volume required and have had a few dogs cry/ react to it. And i don't like wasting peoples' cash either - if the dog is to be spayed then I see absolutely no point using it.

RE: Spaying to prevent unwanted litters

Richard Carter — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 09:41:19 GMT

risks to patient should not be any different if early pregnant or not - as you say - slightly bigger hole and uterus and ovaries should be easier to find and exteriorise. Think recommending alizin is just kicking the ball down the road and avoiding the issue (and adds unnecessary costs for client)

RE: Spaying to prevent unwanted litters

Stephanie Wellings — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 15:16:13 GMT

I would normally have advised alizin and wait for the appropriate 3 months after season to spay, but I had a '2 weeks post mating' booked in for me and went ahead.

I'm not sure how accurate with their dates the owners were, but the uterus/foetuses were a lot bigger than I had expected and surgically it was a bit daunting, but very doable. She did have treatment with 5 days' Kelactin post surgery (I was recommended to use it by one of our other vets to prevent false pregnancy/ongoing lactation) and everything was fine.

I would always recommend Alizin as a first line, as it was a much bigger incision than I usually do and quite stressful, but it definitely did work out cheaper and the problem was 'fixed' more quickly and with less vet visits, so from owner point of view probably a valid option.

RE: Spaying to prevent unwanted litters

Braden Collins — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 02:36:01 GMT

We will happily do them 4 weeks post-season. Never had a problem and certainly prevented some unwanted puppies.

At the risk of generalising, I find the most common clients we do this for are the less financial, so preventing the need for a caesar is pretty important.

RE: Spaying to prevent unwanted litters

Noweia — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 00:11:54 GMT

I find some dogs are very 'bleedy' and I've put these down to being close to coming into season when we've spayed them. We always tend to wait til 3 months after a season to spay.

I'm interested that there are people here who spay a few weeks after a season has finished haven't had a problem with oozing or seeping minor vessels. I've never been brave enough to try, maybe I will now and see how it compares.

RE: Spaying to prevent unwanted litters

Lindsey Edwards — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 19:34:51 GMT

I will do soon (up to 2 weeks) after season or wait the 3months, give owners the option of early if possibly mated and later if definitely not. False pregnancy is mostly linked to spaying close to predicted parturition and I have not seen one in early dioestrus. Do find them more vascular but as stated ovarian ligaments are slacker so not such a huge issue. Would have been wary as a new grad until one of my early spays was very pregnant (hidden by small litter, overweight and long haired!) - surgery went encouragingly well...false pregnancy ensued!

RE: Spaying to prevent unwanted litters

Anthony Dennison — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 17:18:13 GMT

Exactly - if it was the case pyos would be horrendous ops with the uterus falling apart. If anything they're easier. The uterus is right there as soon as you open the abdomen and generally the ovarian ligaments are more slack, giving easier exteriorisation.

RE: Spaying to prevent unwanted litters

David Mills — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 17:12:48 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]I would have just done it too. I know a few vets that would try and cry off because they don't like doing bitch spays so will find any excuse not to do it. [/quote]

Ditto

[/quote]

Tritto.

I've never understood the more vascular or friable argument (learnt at college) - it doesn't reflect my experience. I remember doing some street dogs where you didn't have a choice and there was no discernable difference between in season, post season, or long post-season.

I can see the theory behind milk production if done within season but have never seen it.

RE: Spaying to prevent unwanted litters

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 15:37:44 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]I would have just done it too. I know a few vets that would try and cry off because they don't like doing bitch spays so will find any excuse not to do it. [/quote]

Ditto

RE: Spaying to prevent unwanted litters

Tim Browning — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 10:06:03 GMT

In the charity sector we have done many hundreds of these preemptive spays over the years at 2 to 3 weeks without any problems so far...

RE: Spaying to prevent unwanted litters

Anthony Dennison — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 09:17:56 GMT

I would have just done it too. I know a few vets that would try and cry off because they don't like doing bitch spays so will find any excuse not to do it.

RE: Spaying to prevent unwanted litters

Richard Carter — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 08:46:28 GMT

we spay 2-4 weeks after season, sorts out any oestrogen bleeding but also catches any unwanted pregnancies which at the end of the day is why we spay bitches in first place.

RE: Spaying to prevent unwanted litters

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 08:22:42 GMT

Alizin would have been ideal...............but with a proven irresponsible owner, maybe spaying when you get the chance would have been wise.

Wynne

RE: Spaying to prevent unwanted litters

Chris Milligan — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 08:11:22 GMT

The main reason I don't spay straight after season is because of the increased vascularity of uterine and ovarian tissues which can make the surgery more challenging.

Jury's still out on the endocrine consequences but why take the risk if there's insufficient evidence? Most importantly, as you point out, it's surgeon's prerogative - I always used to say to new grads who would panic about cases lazy bosses (not implying you're a lazy boss Stephen!) used to leave them; if someone dumps a surgery on you they don't get a say on whether it gets cancelled or not.

RE: Spaying to prevent unwanted litters

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 22:39:12 GMT

We spay these bitches all the time. Never had a pseudo-pregnancy, but always warn.

2X consults, Alizin etc can cost more than half the cost of the spay.