Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 31 Aug 2016 08:24:33 GMT

My sympathy. Losing an animal which one loves is horrible.

Wynne

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

svn — Wed, 31 Aug 2016 00:09:25 GMT

[quote user="Chris Milligan"]

[quote user="svn"]If a bitch was given ibuprofen by the owner whilst pregnant, could that result in one of her pups having end stage renal failure at 5 months old?[/quote]

The short answer is yes.

The long answer is that ibuprofen poisoning is notoriously variable in adult dogs. There is insufficient information for solid answers in very young patients. Ibuprofen more classically causes severe gastric ulceration, perforation and generalised enteritis. However renal failure is a common effect also. I work in an emergency centre and we have seen critical illness and death in large dogs given surprisingly low doses (a tablet or two in some cases) despite what the literature on the internet says about there being a tolerated dose of ibuprofen (which has promoted moronic breeders to play vet and hand out ibuprofen as a pain killer to their dogs), so it would appear there's a degree of idiosyncracy in the types of response patients exhibit. Based on this I think it is entirely feasible a single tablet given to the mother could kill a pup. Ibuprofen is well noted for damaging renal papillary development and causing tubular necrosis in children.

Be aware there are many other causes though - renal dysplasia, toxicity from another source since birth etc. As ever with breeders I think they'd have a hard time proving it one way or the other.

[/quote]

Thankyou for your reply, my family were too upset to have a post mortem, and weren't looking to have a go at the breeder, just wondering if it were possible

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Julian Earl — Tue, 30 Aug 2016 22:18:38 GMT

Why not ask Boots as the original manufacturers of ibuprofen tablets?

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Chris Milligan — Fri, 26 Aug 2016 10:43:29 GMT

[quote user="svn"]If a bitch was given ibuprofen by the owner whilst pregnant, could that result in one of her pups having end stage renal failure at 5 months old?[/quote]

The short answer is yes.

Be aware there are many other causes though - renal dysplasia, toxicity from another source since birth etc. As ever with breeders I think they'd have a hard time proving it one way or the other.

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Thomas Johnson — Fri, 26 Aug 2016 09:48:30 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]

I would be extremely suspicious of theibuprofen, and the key question is the dose-rate? Tablet size? 200mg? 400mg? Puppy's weight? If greater than 40mg/kg then likely toxic.

[/quote]

It was given to the bitch when she was pregnant, so very difficult to know how much crossed the placenta to the pups.

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Lindsey Edwards — Fri, 26 Aug 2016 09:48:26 GMT

As Ibuprofen was given to the mother during gestation, all pups should have been equally exposed to serum levels (depending on dose/absorption/half-life - I'm not even attempting this estimate!), the pup was not individually medicated so dose rate is not directly related to exposure, even if we knew how much was intended to be given

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Dinu Catilina — Fri, 26 Aug 2016 08:49:48 GMT

[quote user="svn"]

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]

Hiya, sorry for your loss, would you mind telling us what breed the pup was? There are quite a few breeds with juvenile glomerulonephropathies/ PKD ( but rarely kills them at a young age), etc.

[/quote]

Minature JRT, but backyard bred :(

[/quote]

My first suspicion would be renal dysplasia then. It is unfortunate that an autopsy was not performed and kidneys were not submitted for histology.

I also feel that blaming the breeders for it is a bit far stretched.

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Richard Carter — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 11:18:58 GMT

other pups in the litter affected?

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Julian Earl — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 10:03:18 GMT

I would be extremely suspicious of theibuprofen, and the key question is the dose-rate? Tablet size? 200mg? 400mg? Puppy's weight? If greater than 40mg/kg then likely toxic.

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

svn — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 21:49:22 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]

Hiya, sorry for your loss, would you mind telling us what breed the pup was? There are quite a few breeds with juvenile glomerulonephropathies/ PKD ( but rarely kills them at a young age), etc.

[/quote]

Minature JRT, but backyard bred :(

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Dinu Catilina — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 21:47:24 GMT

Hiya, sorry for your loss, would you mind telling us what breed the pup was? There are quite a few breeds with juvenile glomerulonephropathies/ PKD ( but rarely kills them at a young age), etc.

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

svn — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 21:43:58 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]

[quote user="svn"]She was pts just, can't thank my vet enough...[/quote]

My sympathies - life can be really pants sometimes. But I sincerely doubt if the ibuprophen would have had anything to do with it. Were any of the others in the litter affected?

Chin up,

Niall

[/quote]

Thankyou

None of the other pups have had any health problems so far, she was however by far the smallest of the litter

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Julian Earl — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 09:38:54 GMT

Michael,I prefer to be guided by believe Boot's research where they state the toxic effects were seen at that dose rate in dogs. Regarding carprofen, I remember when Zenecarp first came out from C-Vet when? maybe 1990 or so? [ anybody remember C-Vet?], C-Vet used a full-page advert in the Veterinary Press with a cute Labrador puppy stating that this puppy had just eaten the whole container's-worth of tablets and was fine, or words to that effect so the advert promoted a huge safety margin.. I don't think the same applies to ibuprofen!

My experience with trying ibuprofen was a salutary warning to always check with manufacturers despite what the articles might recommend!

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 01:58:57 GMT

Julian Earl - I suspect that carprofen given at 40mg/kg would also have toxic effects rather quickly. It sounds like someone had the dose wrong. 40mg/kg is around 10 X the dose a grown man would take.

We were taught at college that it has been used in dogs but there is a narrow safety margin and much better (=safer) drugs available.

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Julian Earl — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 14:21:28 GMT

Ibuprofen should never be given to dogs, full stop! I have a paper from Boots way back in 1984 that indicates it can be highly toxic, at 40mg/kg possibly causing irreversible kidney damage within 48 hours. I had tried Brufen i my own Labrador after an article by Polly Taylor,[I think] in In Practice magazine, but stopped immediately after the stern warning that I received from Boots. He ran around a lot better but it wasn't worth the risk. I did put a letter in the Vet Record about this to spread the information. So ibuprofen is a BIG-No-No-nom pregnant or not! Hope this helps?.

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 21:24:54 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"] Is ibuprofen licensed for pregnant women to take?[/quote]

They advise paracetamol only

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Sammy82 — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 21:24:08 GMT

It is not recommended during pregnancy for humans either.

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Niall Taylor — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 21:13:46 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Is ibuprofen licensed for pregnant women to take? If so, it may have been tested on pregnant bitches. Worth contacting the manufacturers.[/quote]

Surely the dog wouldn't be a very useful experimental model for testing ibuprophen, given the great difference in therapeutic index between dogs and humans.

Niall

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 07:44:13 GMT

Is ibuprofen licensed for pregnant women to take? If so, it may have been tested on pregnant bitches. Worth contacting the manufacturers.

Wynne

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Niall Taylor — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 17:21:48 GMT

[quote user="svn"]She was pts just, can't thank my vet enough...[/quote]

My sympathies - life can be really pants sometimes. But I sincerely doubt if the ibuprophen would have had anything to do with it. Were any of the others in the litter affected?

Chin up,

Niall

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 11:08:33 GMT

[quote user="svn"]

She was pts just, can't thank my vet enough...

[/quote] My sympathy , very hard when they are so young. Makes no difference that we work in practice , still hurts like hell .

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

svn — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 04:35:06 GMT

She was pts just, can't thank my vet enough...

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Richard Carter — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:27:56 GMT

there are quite a few breeds with familial nephropathy (genetic) - Kennel Club/ Laboklin have breed lists if you want to see if your pup is one of them

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 08:56:20 GMT

Whatever the cause may be, it's heartbreaking, and you have my sympathy

Wynne

RE: Bitch given ibuprofen whilst pregnant

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 01:17:52 GMT

NSAID toxicity would give an acute renal insult. I very much doubt it is related.