Perioccular swelling in a Bearded Dragon

RE: Perioccular swelling in a Bearded Dragon

Lucy Fleming — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 17:17:30 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]I used to love 'doing exotics'. These days, I'd be happy not to bother seeing them at all. [/quote]

With you on that one. 'Exotics, wow how interesting!' I used to think as a shiny new grad. 'What a niche to establish for myself in a practice'. Now, not so much.

RE: Perioccular swelling in a Bearded Dragon

Anthony Dennison — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 14:46:05 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]We can't re-home them all........ [/quote]

The RSPCA Shelter I visit weekly currently has a 2 corn snakes (1 albino), a king snake and took on a bearded dragon over the weekend... know anyone who wants one?

RE: Perioccular swelling in a Bearded Dragon

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 12:55:20 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]its depressing. You can see why so many people just refuse to bother with them in some areas. [/quote]

Couldn't agree more. I used to love 'doing exotics'. These days, I'd be happy not to bother seeing them at all. We do get good owners, who allow us to work up cases properly, but they are certainly in the minority.

RE: Perioccular swelling in a Bearded Dragon

grumpyoldman — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 12:51:35 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Welcome to my world. Thus is a 'normal' problem for probably 3/4 of my initial reptile consultations. We can't re-home them all........ [/quote]

Yep .... mine too , spend 5-15mins talking about bloods x-rays faecal analysis environment and treatments ,then either euthanise or hand over some metacam and baytril, its depressing. You can see why so many people just refuse to bother with them in some areas.

RE: Perioccular swelling in a Bearded Dragon

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 12:43:58 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Sounds like a case for getting the poor thing off the owner and re-homing with someone who has the will, knowledge and resources to look after if properly with the threat of reporting to the RSPCA for cruelty for letting it get in this state then ignoring it for a month is the first place. Grrrr. [/quote]

Welcome to my world. Thus is a 'normal' problem for probably 3/4 of my initial reptile consultations. We can't re-home them all........

RE: Perioccular swelling in a Bearded Dragon

Laurence Webb — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 11:37:24 GMT

Thanks for the comprehensive answer Marie! I will discuss with the owner and see what we can persuade them to do.

RE: Perioccular swelling in a Bearded Dragon

grumpyoldman — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 11:12:10 GMT

The tail also looks really thin ,how heavy is it ?. We see these all the time usually with a spotty teenager and a £10 note because the PDSA won't touch it after its been anorexic for 6 weeks, The neck and sometimes head swells when they have been laying excessively for ages and the calcium turnover is increased by the glandular activity in the throat ,acts like a CMM causes preorbital oedema, so its definitely a crap environment. They usually either skulk off and let it die in the viv or drive over it.

RE: Perioccular swelling in a Bearded Dragon

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 10:09:08 GMT

Sounds like a case for getting the poor thing off the owner and re-homing with someone who has the will, knowledge and resources to look after if properly with the threat of reporting to the RSPCA for cruelty for letting it get in this state then ignoring it for a month is the first place. Grrrr.

RE: Perioccular swelling in a Bearded Dragon

Gareth C. — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:57:22 GMT

i have dealt with a few tortoises like this (see marie's comment) hypo'A very likely but also any reptile pus will be fairly solid and there may be large plugs of pus under each eyelid that can be fairly easily removed.

we also use vetark ACE hi for vit A supplement (and nutrobol for vitD and Ca)

poor beardie

RE: Perioccular swelling in a Bearded Dragon

Marie Kubiak — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:47:17 GMT

That looks painful and infected. Has she been started on some pain relief as that would be a basic first step and will make her feel an awful lot better in the short-term? I agree that hypovitaminosis A can be a big factor in these kinds of eye issues but not as frequently in beardies as in chelonia and geckos so either husbandry is dire or there are other factors involved. Worth trying to speak to the actual owner, even if only on the phone, to try and get a proper assessment of husbandry.

Additional considerations as for other species are foreign body reaction, granulomatous infection, cellulitis, abscessation and trauma. More beardie specific differentials are microsporidial infection, excessive/inappropriate wavelength UV exposure, aneurysms and squamous cell carcinomas (unusual bilaterally but so common in beardies that this is possible).

Vitamin A replacement takes weeks-months to achieve as there is no safe injectable form so oral supplements are used (we use ACE high from VetArk usually) and take time for GI recovery and for normal uptake to resume.

I would also look at cytology (plus culture if owners are willing) and start systemic antibiotics based on findings as a first line. Simply remedying husbandry, providing supportive care (assist feeding, fluids, analgesia), treating bacterial component and providing sufficient vitamin A may lead to resolution but I would be concerned that this is a pretty rundown lizard with how skinny she is and depletion of calcium stores if she is a repeat layer. Hospitalisation for more intensive treatment plus investigation (rads to assess bone mineralisation, bloodwork and taking sampels for cytology and culture) would give a better chance of successful management if owners will fund this. If medical therapy doesn't solve the problem then look to biopsy but by this stage you should have a more stable lizard and have eliminated the secondary infection to get a true impression of the primary causes.

Marie

RE: Perioccular swelling in a Bearded Dragon

Emily Rainbow — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 19:29:32 GMT

Not much more to add as that would be my top differential too although will be following this with interest.

as an aside what is everyone using to dose exotics with vit A at the moment? All with have is ADE but I've been concerned over the vit D level in it When using it.