Age of dog castration

RE: Age of dog castration

Anthony Todd — Sat, 16 Apr 2016 15:28:52 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]accidental matings from free-roaming males![/quote]

It used to be called, politely, "sexual vagrancy" which has a sort of Premier League ring to it....

RE: Age of dog castration

Lucy Fleming — Sat, 16 Apr 2016 14:54:39 GMT

[quote user="John Flynn"]From a popluation control point of view I think its really the bitches that one is better to concentrate on.[/quote]

I agree you would need to castrate all the dogs for it to be effective. Whilst I do think we have somewhat of an overpopulation issue in the UK, I feel it mainly comes from people deliberately breeding their dogs for whatever reason they feel is appropriate rather than accidental matings from free-roaming males!

RE: Age of dog castration

John Flynn — Sat, 16 Apr 2016 13:57:31 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]I agree to a certain extent, and without a roaming dog problem the population control issue is minor. I certainly don't fret with the boys too much, I do recommend spaying bitches though.[/quote]

From a popluation control point of view I think its really the bitches that one is better to concentrate on.

A bitch can produce maybe 10 pups a year.

A dog can sire maybe 1000 pups a year.

Castrating maybe 30% of male dogs ain't going to make much of a difference I would reckon. It's the bitches you want to sterilise. I would expect the added population control of castrating 30% of dogs in an area is probably modest at best irrespective of the population density.

RE: Age of dog castration

John Flynn — Sat, 16 Apr 2016 13:57:25 GMT

From a popluation control point of view I think its really the bitches that one is better to concentrate on.

A bitch can produce maybe 10 pups a year.

A dog can sire maybe 1000 pups a year.

RE: Age of dog castration

Lucy Fleming — Sat, 16 Apr 2016 13:46:44 GMT

[quote user="John Flynn"]I'm in the if it ain't broke don't fix it camp. [or I guess in this case if it ain't broke don't go round cutting bits off such as tails, toes and testicles in case they just might break further down the line without a pretty darned good reason!][/quote]

I agree to a certain extent, and without a roaming dog problem the population control issue is minor. I certainly don't fret with the boys too much, I do recommend spaying bitches though.

RE: Age of dog castration

John Flynn — Sat, 16 Apr 2016 13:43:15 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"] don't think there's really any convincing evidence that testosterone actually has any effect on 'fearfulness'. It's certainly not a universally held opinion among veterinary behaviourists that castration of fearful dogs is not to be recommended or carried out.[/quote]

I reckon the process involved in getting a puppy castrated may subject it to fear and/or pain on occasions - that can change things at a crucial point in a puppy's development. Have certainly heard plenty of folks say that "he was never like that [insert problem-behaviour] until he got castrated"

I'm in the if it ain't broke don't fix it camp. [or I guess in this case if it ain't broke don't go round cutting bits off such as tails, toes and testicles in case they just might break further down the line without a pretty darned good reason!]

I do castrate a reasonable number of older dogs on medical grounds (no idea what the actual figure is, but I'd guess perhaps 10%?), but I wouldn't think that justifies castrating the other ?90% when they're younger. Perineal hernias can be a pain I admit, but they're relatively uncommon in my experience and most other "preventable" problems are cured simply with castration at the time.

RE: Age of dog castration

Neil Wheadon — Sat, 16 Apr 2016 00:09:36 GMT

[quote user="Scarlett Creasey"]What are peoples thoughts on spays, as in what age in dogs? Before first season (7-9 months)?[/quote]

I (almost) enjoy doing them

Neil

RE: Age of dog castration

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 17:25:11 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]

From the point of view of surgical technique, I much prefer a pre-pubertal bitch spay (nice stretchy ovarian pedicles!)

[/quote]

Yeah, pre-pubertal are lovely. I tend to wait for the larger breed dogs to be older. My mum has been doing pre-pubertal spays for over a decade and hasn't seen a related increase in urinary incontinence.

RE: Age of dog castration

Lucy Fleming — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 17:45:44 GMT

From the point of view of surgical technique, I much prefer a pre-pubertal bitch spay (nice stretchy ovarian pedicles!)

RE: Age of dog castration

Scarlett Creasey — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 14:08:14 GMT

What are peoples thoughts on spays, as in what age in dogs? Before first season (7-9 months)?

RE: Age of dog castration

Lucy Fleming — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 13:05:08 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]I've met two nurses now who are into behaviour saying that to castrate a nervous dog at 6 months is wrong.[/quote]

I don't think there's really any convincing evidence that testosterone actually has any effect on 'fearfulness'. It's certainly not a universally held opinion among veterinary behaviourists that castration of fearful dogs is not to be recommended or carried out. I tend to advocate neutering as I have little faith in the average some dog owners' willingness to stop their intact male from roaming, impregnating females and getting hit by a car. (This applies to the willingness/ ability of owners of intact females to prevent them from being impregnated as well)

RE: Age of dog castration

Will McMullan — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 16:53:53 GMT

Our practice sees an incredible number of aggressive, painful, lytic bone lesions in Rottweilers considering how few we have on our books. I wouldn't be surprised if we had nearly 20% eventually developing them. I didn't even blink when I read 7-8%. I don't think they all come from a small pool of local breeders either.

RE: Age of dog castration

Kate Richardson — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 15:27:40 GMT

Thank you Malcolm

RE: Age of dog castration

Malcolm Ness — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 15:19:56 GMT

[quote user="Utlendigur"]But is that a referral caseload or 1st opinion? Just wondering whether most presenting with OSA would be dealt with by amputation or pts at 1st opinion level and not get to referral stage.[/quote]

I had a foot in both camps and neither population came close to producing the numbers of bone sarcomata cited in the Cooley paper.

RE: Age of dog castration

Kate Richardson — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 14:42:39 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

[quote user="Tim Charlesworth"] Rotty's have a 7-8% risk of developing OSA anyway[/quote]

I have always struggled with that number. It is simply not reflective of the caseload that I have been exposed to over the last thirty years.

[/quote]

Malcolm Ness- do you see more or less?

RE: Age of dog castration

Tim Charlesworth — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 14:38:45 GMT

[quote user="Utlendigur"]

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

[quote user="Tim Charlesworth"] Rotty's have a 7-8% risk of developing OSA anyway[/quote]

I have always struggled with that number. It is simply not reflective of the caseload that I have been exposed to over the last thirty years.

[/quote]

But is that a referral caseload or 1st opinion? Just wondering whether most presenting with OSA would be dealt with by amputation or pts at 1st opinion level and not get to referral stage.

[/quote]

The Cooley paper was questionnaire based using breed societies so not a referral population. I'm sure you're right that many dogs with OSA get amputated or euthanased before you get to meet them!

RE: Age of dog castration

Utlendigur — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:56:30 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

[quote user="Tim Charlesworth"] Rotty's have a 7-8% risk of developing OSA anyway[/quote]

I have always struggled with that number. It is simply not reflective of the caseload that I have been exposed to over the last thirty years.

[/quote]

But is that a referral caseload or 1st opinion? Just wondering whether most presenting with OSA would be dealt with by amputation or pts at 1st opinion level and not get to referral stage.

RE: Age of dog castration

Tim Charlesworth — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:24:03 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

[quote user="Tim Charlesworth"] Rotty's have a 7-8% risk of developing OSA anyway[/quote]

I have always struggled with that number. It is simply not reflective of the caseload that I have been exposed to over the last thirty years.

[/quote]

It does seem high but it is based on literature. The Cooley paper had 28/275 Rotty's with OSA. The figures could be slightly higher for a North American cohort but even so, it's depressing but probably fairly accurate...

RE: Age of dog castration

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 12:36:06 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]how about for preventing prostate problems (except neoplasia), anal adenomas, perineal hernias. And just responsible dog ownership so that your entire male doesn't impregnate a bitch?[/quote]

If a dog is hypersexual or does run off all the time chasing bitches, we discuss castration. All potential problems can be treated with castration when the dog is older.

When I say I don't push it, I will discuss the pros and cons in depth with owners at 1st/2nd vaccs. Owners make up their own mind from then on.

RE: Age of dog castration

Malcolm Ness — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:30:32 GMT

[quote user="Tim Charlesworth"] Rotty's have a 7-8% risk of developing OSA anyway[/quote]

I have always struggled with that number. It is simply not reflective of the caseload that I have been exposed to over the last thirty years.

RE: Age of dog castration

Robin Grimmer — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:28:40 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

We don't recommend routine castration of males. Will do them if the specific circumstances dictate.

[/quote]

Same here, I won't turn people away that want their dog done, but won't push for it at puppy consults.

[/quote]

how about for preventing prostate problems (except neoplasia), anal adenomas, perineal hernias. And just responsible dog ownership so that your entire male doesn't impregnate a bitch?

RE: Age of dog castration

Tim Charlesworth — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:17:08 GMT

The Osteosarcoma (OSA) risk comes from a paper (Cooley et al 2002) looking specifically at Rotty's being used for a model of spontaneous osteosarcoma development (with view to using in research for post-menopausal women who may be at increased risk). Rotty's have a 7-8% risk of developing OSA anyway and if neutered before 12 months of age then this trebled to the "one in 4" that is often quoted. It is thought that endogenous sex hormones exert a "protective" effect on osteoblast turnover and when this is lost, then neoplastic transformation is more likely.

Some breed sites use this paper to say not very helpful things like "spaying gives your dog cancer" etc... It's worth pointing out that the same study showed that gonadectomised dogs lived longer than the entire dogs in the study.

Although Rotty specific, the logic should be applied to any large breed dog and so we recommend neutering any large breed dog at >12mth on our first opinion clinic based on this research

RE: Age of dog castration

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:39:47 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

We don't recommend routine castration of males. Will do them if the specific circumstances dictate.

[/quote]

Same here, I won't turn people away that want their dog done, but won't push for it at puppy consults.

RE: Age of dog castration

Anthony Todd — Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:11:49 GMT

Crikey there's loads of dodgy statistics.!

see above.....

Sort of "the risk of XXX is doubled if the dog is castrated from 1 in a million to 2 in 1 million. based on three cases.....

RE: Age of dog castration

Bob Russell — Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:01:08 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

It's thought provoking, but where does this come from?

“The link between sterilization and osteosarcoma (i.e. bone cancer) is also troubling: Spayed and neutered animals are twice as likely to develop this cancer. Those spayed or castrated before their first birthdays had a roughly 1 in 4 lifetime risk for osteosarcoma and were significantly more likely to develop a tumor than intact dogs.”

Dr Kevin Hahn (Veterinary Oncologist)

[/quote]

I have to say I treat the 1 in 4 chance of osteosarcoma with considerable scepticism! How many osteosarcomas do practices actually see?

It is a rare tumour in my experience compared to mast cell tumours or lymphoma. I just don't believe the figure or we would be sinking under cases.

Many of my patients are rescues and have been neutered before being taken on by new owners.