Routine Rabbit Worming

RE: Routine Rabbit Worming

Bob Russell — Tue, 29 Mar 2016 09:38:34 GMT

John Chitty was pretty negative about routine fenbendazole at a CPD day course, some time back.

Toxicity was his main concern from what I remember.

Twice yearly Panacur is a good marketing idea to promote sales only IMO.

RE: Routine Rabbit Worming

Marie Kubiak — Mon, 28 Mar 2016 19:51:19 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]

[/quote]

But this falls apart when you know that treatment doesn't clear the parasite. It may prevent infection during treatment but as soon as you stop medication they have no protection and either there is no potential source of infection (so why treat?) or the source of infection (spores in environment, infected companions) remain and infection will now occur. If infected before treatment it is again of no clear benefit.

It is unfortunate that the 'routine' 28d treatnent has been heavily promoted by a small minority as an advisable treatment for every rabbit to clear infection as this requires rather a large leap of faith based on currently published material and may well be a futile exercise.

Hannah- it is Richard Saunders and I, we will publish when one or other of us gets time to complete the final draft.

Marie

RE: Routine Rabbit Worming

mariette asselbergs — Mon, 28 Mar 2016 14:31:00 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Bose"]

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]Hopefully this work will be published shortly[/quote]

Can you let us know when it is published? I am interested. Who are the authors to look out for and any idea which publication it will be in?

[/quote]

Who told us about his work in his lecture for the BSAVACert ECC (Exotics module) was Neil Forbes (DipECZM FRCVS).

To be sure what he was trying to do was preventing rabbits to become infected in a new environment, and that was the part of Suter's work that he referred to, not the treatment of already infected rabbits. He gave the impression that he had been doing this for a number of years with rabbit breeders, and that the rabbits had not become infected.

So look out for that publication if it ever materialises....

Mariette

RE: Routine Rabbit Worming

HMC — Mon, 28 Mar 2016 12:34:07 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]Hopefully this work will be published shortly[/quote]

Can you let us know when it is published? I am interested. Who are the authors to look out for and any idea which publication it will be in?

RE: Routine Rabbit Worming

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 28 Mar 2016 09:34:43 GMT

Well that's knocked the sales of Rabbit Panacur syringes then!

RE: Routine Rabbit Worming

Marie Kubiak — Mon, 28 Mar 2016 07:41:33 GMT

The study results will be interesting however there is now data to show giving 28d panacur (by trained staff not owners) in regularly cleaned and disinfected housing does not stop rabbits shedding E. Cuniculi after treatment so to expect better outcomes in the hands of owners who may miss doses, have rabbits in enclosures or on grass that can't be disinfected is optimistic. Hopefully this work will be published shortly and highlight the flaws in treating with the intention of clearing asymptomatic infections.

Unfortunately the Suter paper is based on a very small group and the treatment conclusions were based on showing that less rabbits in the treated group lacked detectable spores within the brain. No statistical significance was shown and no analysis was made of presence of the spores at more likely sites (kidney in particular). It was a pilot study but no other more solid work was then published leaving the answers vague.

Marie

RE: Routine Rabbit Worming

mariette asselbergs — Mon, 28 Mar 2016 00:40:16 GMT

[quote]

But what does this acheive? Rabbits can still remain infected and shedding E cuniculi spores after 28d of fenbendazole treatment so you aren't really protecting the individual or the companion.

[/quote]

Neil Forbes told us that he has a program trying to create and maintain E cunniculi free groups of rabbits. As owners take on new rabbits, these are treated with 20mg fenbendazole for 28 days, commencing after their 2nd vaccination typically at age 12 weeks. If the owners already have rabbits, then these are also treated. Owners are advised to clean and disinfect the accomodation at 21 and 28 days. To date no incidence of toxicity has been encountered, nor has any treated rabbit later developed clinical disease associated with E cunniculi. He based this on work of Suter in 2001 (VR 148, 478-480), which seemed to show that rabbits at time of profylactic treatment would not become infected if under challenge. I suppose we have to wait for the publication of his results.....

Mariette

RE: Routine Rabbit Worming

grumpyoldman — Sun, 27 Mar 2016 09:09:10 GMT

The 28 days comes from the original paper in the vet record , 2 groups 1 treated one not , histo showed differences in numbers of granulomas formed etc ,then again it maybe just the number of people in the VMD christmas party raffle.

RE: Routine Rabbit Worming

Marie Kubiak — Sun, 27 Mar 2016 08:39:00 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

Last CPD I went, advised us to do this anytime you want to introduce a rabbit to your house. And if you already have one, to 'quarantine' before put them together until the treatment has finished. I was told to use the 10% Solution because it was the only way to make it accurate enough for 28 days. The new panacur syringe paste was rubbished and considered not fit for purpose.

... and I don't remember when or where this was

[/quote]

Interesting, we just had an exotics lecture advising just the same!

Mariette

[/quote]

But what does this acheive? Rabbits can still remain infected and shedding E cuniculi spores after 28d of fenbendazole treatment so you aren't really protecting the individual or the companion.

RE: Routine Rabbit Worming

mariette asselbergs — Sat, 26 Mar 2016 19:20:29 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

... and I don't remember when or where this was

[/quote]

Interesting, we just had an exotics lecture advising just the same!

Mariette

RE: Routine Rabbit Worming

Marie Kubiak — Sat, 26 Mar 2016 15:04:10 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

and the cons are?

Neil

[/quote]

Hepatopathy, idiosyncratic bone marrow suppression, psychological (social disruption, damage to owner-rabbit bond) and physical (stasis, urine retention, altered activity) consequences of daily restraint and medication for 1 month to administer treatment that has little or no benefit

RE: Routine Rabbit Worming

Neil Wheadon — Sat, 26 Mar 2016 14:53:22 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]I discuss the pros and cons with owners of new rabbits and decide on an individual basis.[/quote]

and the cons are?

Neil

RE: Routine Rabbit Worming

Elaine zanatta — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 21:08:25 GMT

Here, dewormer only if the stool test is positive!

Elaine.

RE: Routine Rabbit Worming

Marie Kubiak — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 19:51:49 GMT

Hi,

I don't advocate it for worming in rabbits as nematode infestations are so rare! When we started doing a rabbit package 5yrs ago the plan was for routine E. cuniculi treatment (28d course) for new rabbits as was recommended then based on data available. However as more information has become available and we know fenbendazole doesn't actually eliminate E. cuniculi and has a potential (though small) for side effects I discuss the pros and cons with owners of new rabbits and decide on an individual basis. In most cases there is no strong indication to treat but if they are being introduced to known negative rabbits, in contact with immunocompromised patients or have indication of disease (primarily small linear cataracts in young rabbits) then I will suggest treatment. For a young, healthy rabbit I won't unless the owner is particularly keen.

Marie

RE: Routine Rabbit Worming

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 19:27:48 GMT

The issue AFAIA is not so much worming as prevention of E.cuniculi. Because there is a potential risk of picking this up from infected foodstuff such as hay then I advise treating them as per instruction on the Panacur syringe a couple of times a year. Its certainly not for 28 days.

RE: Routine Rabbit Worming

Francisco Gomez — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 15:53:43 GMT

... and I don't remember when or where this was