Weird weekend cases

RE: Weird weekend cases

Bob Russell — Mon, 21 Mar 2016 13:09:52 GMT

Worth contacting TDDS for their all singing, all dancing tox screen perhaps?

RE: Weird weekend cases

Joyce Whitehead — Mon, 21 Mar 2016 09:45:02 GMT

We contacted VPIS, and they couldn't come up with anything that fitted. They were suggesting insect bites for the skin lesions, but in real life they just didn't look like bites at all, more like a human septicaemia rash but in a non sick dog (apart from the first two).

RE: Weird weekend cases

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 21 Mar 2016 08:48:42 GMT

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"] has anybody thought of EIC regarding the collapse? [/quote]

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"]sudden break down in labs is way more often caused by EIC.[/quote]So next time Chris Froome becomes hypoglycaemic on the last part of a stage of the Tour de France and has to send a team mate back to the car to get food*, he can tell everyone he's got EIC rather than he didn't eat enough and thereby avoid the penalty imposed.

*PS this did happen: he was fined and docked 30 seconds.

RE: Weird weekend cases

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 21 Mar 2016 08:42:22 GMT

Another vote for some poison in the water.

Wynne

RE: Weird weekend cases

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Mon, 21 Mar 2016 07:47:44 GMT

Sounds like a nightmare for that poor vet and thank goodness you were around for back up. I would be wondering what was upstream and hoping some farmer hadn't been storing some rusty barrels of something hideous in a shed next to the stream. Sounds like some noxious chemical. Have you contacted the poisons info people as they might have some idea what could cause the symptoms

RE: Weird weekend cases

Charlotte Marshall — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 23:51:05 GMT

Reminds me of the time I got called to help a colleague who was presented with a field full of collapsed sheep which had got into a patch of rhododendrons.

RE: Weird weekend cases

Joyce Whitehead — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 22:27:47 GMT

Interesting thoughts. I just hope the water is analysed. The steward of the dog club had the sample. He is not the owner of the land.

We try to stay around when our young gradutes are on call, all of us need a shoulder to lean on at times, and I wish I'd had one in my first couple of jobs.

RE: Weird weekend cases

Utlendigur — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 22:10:29 GMT

Anaphylaxis due to some sort of stings or bites (plant or animal)?

Or going really unlikely - some form of "swimmers itch" (cercarial dermatitis)

https://parasitesandvectors.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1756-3305-7-277 (also found a record of it in Scotland so not just S England)

http://www.helminthology.cz/trichobilharzia.htm (photo of skin lesions about half way down page)

RE: Weird weekend cases

Dagmar Steele — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 21:53:40 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"]By the way, has anybody thought of EIC regarding the collapse? Was the temperature normal?[/quote]15/25 dogs with skin lesions on a cold day plus the two that drunk the water were the worst affected is pretty well a no-brainer that it is something to do with the water. No need to look for weird neuro-muscular syndromes or exercise induced hypoglycaemia or hyperthermia here.

[/quote]

I completely agree, I also thinks it's been the water and I'm interested in reading the test results. I was just wondering why you'd bring a myelopathy that would usually show at a rather young age into consideration when sudden break down in labs is way more often caused by EIC. If they had two unrelated conditions this would've been far more likely. But anyway, as I said, I also agree on the water being the main suspect here. And I do picture the situation in front of my inner eye, good to hear the OP was available for help, imagine a new grad left to deal with it on his/her own!

RE: Weird weekend cases

Joyce Whitehead — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 21:42:40 GMT

It was about 10C here today, and as the dogs got wet, I'm sure there wasn't any issue of hyperthermia. Not pyrexic on arrival either. Sorry, I feel like I'm turning down all suggestions, but it is a very odd case.

Although as as plan on pointing out to our young vet, these odd things are the benefit of doing out of hours work.

RE: Weird weekend cases

Martin Atkinson — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 21:32:05 GMT

RE: Weird weekend cases

Dagmar Steele — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 21:26:31 GMT

[quote user="Joyce Whitehead"]

I think gom was referring to this:

http://www.aht.org.uk/cms-display/genetics_myopathy.html

I'be never seem a case, but it does cause exercise intolerance.

[/quote]

If so, the owners would've noticed signs beforehand. I have a Hovawart in my clientele with a similar condition, it's pretty obvious something's wrong with that dog. It would not have been able to do field trials long before it got really wobbly. Plus this doesn't explain the skin symptoms. Maybe skin and breakdowns/vomiting are unrelated and these two dogs have been worked too hard. But that still leaves the skin issue. By the way, has anybody thought of EIC regarding the collapse? Was the temperature normal?

RE: Weird weekend cases

Joyce Whitehead — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 20:48:19 GMT

I think gom was referring to this:

http://www.aht.org.uk/cms-display/genetics_myopathy.html

I'be never seem a case, but it does cause exercise intolerance.

RE: Weird weekend cases

Martin Atkinson — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 20:36:35 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]just wondered about the exhausted labrador myopathy that is vague ,involves sudden collapse and spontaneous recovery after a rest .[/quote]Too many at once. But I busted that as a myth anyway. It is no more than hypoglycaemia same as you or I would suffer if we ran/cycled with no food intake until our liver glycogen runs out after 2.5 hrs. Otherwise known in sporting circles as: hitting the wall/meeting the man with the hammer/the knock/the bonk etc etc. Quite simple really but a 'syndrome' sounds better than the bleedin' obvious!

RE: Weird weekend cases

Joyce Whitehead — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 20:25:42 GMT

No close relatives. And although I agree it looks on the photos like pyoderma, there was no raising of the skim or irritation, the lesions were definitely not present then came up this morning. The myopathy angle might be worth suggesting the owners test for, although these are all experienced field trial dogs and I would have thought something would have appeared by now.

The land they had never used before today (and I suspect never will again) but some upstream contamination is certainly worth considering. Apparently the beck looked really "mucky".

RE: Weird weekend cases

grumpyoldman — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 19:45:00 GMT

were they litter mates ? lots of labs have grumbling low grade pyoderma with pustules and collarettes etc particularly the chocolate ones for some weird reason ? just wondered about the exhausted labrador myopathy that is vague ,involves sudden collapse and spontaneous recovery after a rest . Nitrates/nitrites also spring to mind , any evidence of recent over zealous fertiliser use on land around the site?

RE: Weird weekend cases

Joyce Whitehead — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 19:09:09 GMT

We considered algal bloom, but nothing to see on the water, it was also moving water. And the VPIS reckoned there would have been neuro signs and death if it were algal poisoning.

RE: Weird weekend cases

Joyce Whitehead — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 19:07:16 GMT

Yes we've taken bloods to send for toxicology at the lab, but are holding them till we see if there is any change overnight. And yes, arriving at the surgery and being unable to get in the car park for pickups and labs was concerning! We certainly couldn't have hospitalised 15. The owners were all lovely though, but their day was rather different to the planned one...

RE: Weird weekend cases

Judith Archbold — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 19:05:55 GMT

Could it be a reaction to some kind of " algal bloom" on the standing water? We sometimes see this in the New Forest.....but usually late summer time.

RE: Weird weekend cases

Martin Atkinson — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 19:03:40 GMT

Sounds like the sort of thing I have nightmares about. Just as well only 2 needed hospitalising - presumably your practice is not vet to all so time to pack them off to their own vets. Be interesting to hear the results of the toxicology report on the water. Worrying if that beck feeds into a human water supply.

RE: Weird weekend cases

Joyce Whitehead — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 18:31:27 GMT

Ok, I can't see my photo, maybe because I'm on an iPad. But hopefully this will be the link to the photos on photo bucket.

http://s593.photobucket.com/user/joycecwhitehead/library/?sort=3&page=1