L2 or L4 vaccine? What is the general consensus please?

RE: L2 or L4 vaccine? What is the general consensus please?

Bob Russell — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 10:57:44 GMT

Some practices vaccinate more than is necessary so from that point over vaccination happens. Is it harmful? Probably not but definitely lazy practice. Restricted mainly to the budget practices around here where they usually get a full booster every year. Quicker than asking about the pets lifestyle.

RE: L2 or L4 vaccine? What is the general consensus please?

Stuart Jackson — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 09:57:00 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Over-vaccination doesn't exist.

[/quote]

It does if you ignore the data sheet...

RE: L2 or L4 vaccine? What is the general consensus please?

Mark Frost — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 12:06:14 GMT

A number of cases last year had bratislava confirmed in Bristol/Bath area, didn't see any myself as we are a bit further out but I think Highcroft vets dealt with a high number, and ran some CPD for local practices on the differing presentations they were getting. Even allowing for poor sensitivity and specificity on the tests it was still a lot, and some were confirmed post mortem, their medicine people would be able to give you more details. We have been using L4 as those cases were too close for comfort. I think depends on the area as to how high of a risk you are but considering zoonotic potential, possibility of carriers/shedding etc.. etc.. I don't think there is a major medical reason not to.

Those that do not currently use it, do you have clients going to Europe using PETS, and if so do you recommend L4 to them? Grippotyphosa is supposedly more prevalent there than here, so I think that is worth considering.

( I think they have L6 in the US..)

RE: L2 or L4 vaccine? What is the general consensus please?

Eilidh Corr — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 20:47:41 GMT

We've been using L4 for a couple of years now. We've had lepto deaths in the practice before now and realistically most of our patients are potentially exposed due to their lifestyle and locations. I've also had rising lepto titres in dogs I've been blood sampling prior to export so we know it's out there.

With regard to prevalent strains etc I make a point of explaining to owners that there are strains which we can't vaccinate against and it's a far from perfect vaccine anyway, but that it's the best available. Most dogs here are far and away now likely to pick up lepto than any of the core viral diseases anyway. Owners appreciate being involved in the decision making and having the protocol explained to them.

As an aside, it does seem to be more irritating than L2 ever was - lots of puppies getting upset a few moments post-injection.

RE: L2 or L4 vaccine? What is the general consensus please?

Andrew Henfrey — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 20:37:48 GMT

It's an L3 I think. It was in the Vet Record as Eurican MultiL.

RE: L2 or L4 vaccine? What is the general consensus please?

Bob Russell — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 14:20:12 GMT

I was under the impression that an L4 Eurican is on its way!

RE: L2 or L4 vaccine? What is the general consensus please?

Bob Russell — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 14:18:49 GMT

Second vaccination in 3-4 weeks time routinely! FOC to client.

I suspect lepto is very underreported because it is difficult to diagnose. Dogs with non-specific fevers tend to get antibiotics and hopefully get better.

A recent Survey in Denmark suggested six percent of dogs are carrying lepto. Have not found the original link.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23141966 suggests that the new strains Australis and Grippotyphosa are relevent in France

Side effects of the change of vaccine? A few quiet/stiff dogs, two requiring an oral dose of meloxicam. Back to normal within hours. A few lumps at the injection site which go down within a few days. Extra cost to owner, zero.

Some of these serovars are very important in Europe and with dogs and people moving freely across borders, it is only a matter of time before they become as important here (if not already).

Distemper is uncommon but we still vaccinate against it!

RE: L2 or L4 vaccine? What is the general consensus please?

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 13:47:24 GMT

Country practice. We see a number of cases of lepto every year. Never seen one in a L2 vaccinated dog, seen many in dogs lapsed with boosters for a few years.

Clearly we have the infection pressure. If someone can come to me and show that there is no cross protection and we have UK data showing these strains are important in terms of causing disease then I am interested.

We use the Merial (Eurican) vaccines and they don't offer L4. I am happy with the vaccines, so this isn't a decider in terms of switching products. I've spoken to two companies trying to sell me L4 vacc - neither have gotten back to me with the evidence I need to make that decision.

It feels to me like unreferenced clever marketing to be honest.

Over-vaccination doesn't exist.

RE: L2 or L4 vaccine? What is the general consensus please?

Holly Norman — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 13:44:00 GMT

All of our adult dogs are booked in for 2nd L4 in 4wks. This is FOC as we can claim it back from MSD.

Puppies have 2nd DHPPi in 2wks then 2nd Lepto 4 2wks after that.

RE: L2 or L4 vaccine? What is the general consensus please?

Bob Russell — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 13:34:40 GMT

Second vaccination in 3-4 weeks time routinely! FOC to client.

I suspect lepto is very underreported because it is difficult to diagnose. Dogs with non-specific fevers tend to get antibiotics and hopefully get better.

A recent Survey in Denmark suggested six percent of dogs are carrying lepto. Have not found the original link.

RE: L2 or L4 vaccine? What is the general consensus please?

Tara Zilic — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 13:23:51 GMT

I do believe the L2 vaccine is protecting our dogs against by far the most common leptospires already.

My concern with L4 was really vaccinating against something that we don't seem to see in the UK - L. Grippothyphosa apparently does not cause disease in dogs in the UK (according to the Virbac literature) and L. Bratislava is apparently rare in the UK. I am happy to vaccinate to prevent disease, but there doesn't seem to be much evidence to indicate that these extra 2 strains are actually causing disease in dogs in our country.

Has anybody seen leptospirosis caused by either of the 2 new strains in the L4 vaccine?

Also for those of you have made the switch to L4 are you recalling every dog for a 2nd L4 vaccine 4 weeks later?

RE: L2 or L4 vaccine? What is the general consensus please?

Holly Norman — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 12:01:28 GMT

We are currently moving everyone to L4.

I think the 'overvaccinating' argument has been done to death on here before!

RE: L2 or L4 vaccine? What is the general consensus please?

Bob Russell — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:51:23 GMT

We have moved to L4 (Zoetis) quite happily. Our job is to protect our patients as well as possible!

I do live components (except Pi) every three to four years so really don't consider it over vaccinating!

Not sure the 'over vaccinating' lobby are being listened to in the same way. At the moment the lobbying for children is towards more vaccines rather than less.