Dog Behaviour (poor recall)

RE: Dog Behaviour (poor recall)

Julian Earl — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 18:47:09 GMT

Yes I'd always recommend training classes. Trouble is, my mother won a gold medal for the obedience of the Labrador preceding the one I refer to above, then this one was thrown out for being too excitable with the other dogs and upsetting the training class! We rescued him at a year old when two doctors owned him and kept in a garage all dayand had no time to give him any walks!I suspect he was happy to move in with us and receive 5-10 mile walks every day.

Notethat a washing line gets complicated in a wooded area! It works though.

RE: Dog Behaviour (poor recall)

Virginia Campbell — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 15:11:54 GMT

I took mine to training classes as a pup then went on to do the Kennel Club Good Citizen bronze, silver and gold awards. I thought at first that it might be full of frightfully "doggy women" earnestly training prancing collies to be velcroed round their left thigh, but actually it was all just normal pets owners with a variety of ages and all sorts of breeds of dogs. It was good because it trains you not to be sloppy in giving directions; you can't really learn the right timing and body positioning out of a book or even a video - it's much better in person- and it forces you to practise when you know you've got the class coming up once a week.

All of the dogs' recall improved and we eventually got to the stage where all the owners could send their dogs for a retrieve or to bed and drop them halfway, then send them on or recall back to us on command. They also learn to wait - for a retrieve, while you're opening a gate, etc and not pull on the lead and to obey a leave it command - ours will even (regretfully) leave delicious sheep poo on command. All in all making dog walking a much nicer experience.

My husband then taught our dog some more hunting and retrieving stuff and takes her shooting now. They don't get to go often but on the last day of the season out with friends this year the dogs started rioting after a hare - she was the only one who came back promptly when called. I think all the training is good for their minds as well, it's what gundog breeds are bred for and makes them happy.

I did use aversive training when she was very small - small enough for me to outrun - and deliberately took her through sheep a couple of times and didn't command her not to chase. She glanced at me and gave chase to the sheep whereupon I ran her down and gave her a belt with the rope end and roared at her. I did this on two separate occasions and that was enough. It's the only time I have ever hit her. Perhaps other methods would have worked but we have a sheep farm and our neighbours have sheep, plus we go hillwalking a bit and my husband takes her rough shooting on farmland belonging to other people. We really, really could not afford for her to be anything other than 100% steady with stock (she ignores them now) and I think it's one of the few cases where full-on strong aversive training is OK. Since you can't outrun a grown lab and the behaviour is a bit more ingrained in your sister's dog now, I would strongly advise her to get professional help. I think behaviour is an interesting subject but stock or deer chasing is a cardinal sin - nearly on a par with biting people- and I would definitely refer rather than handling the case myself.

RE: Dog Behaviour (poor recall)

Julian Earl — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:20:27 GMT

I had a Labrador like that some years ago, and he'd turn round to chase after a dog we'd passed five miles preiously. His walks were runs for me!The only solution was a ten metre [ that's thirty five feet or so in old money!] washing line and I'd train him at full stretch. Eventually I could make him Wait/ Leave at two hundred metres as he charged after his target, that I count as success. but it took six months or more and was never 100% reliable. I still loved that dog in any case!Walks made me fit.

RE: Dog Behaviour (poor recall)

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 13:52:47 GMT

As has already been said, it is the owners who need training! I assume this dog, whenever it gets caught, is thoroughly punished, put back on the lead and marched home.

Can't imagine why it doesn't want to come back......

RE: Dog Behaviour (poor recall)

Bob Russell — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 13:10:25 GMT

I have no particular problem with the idea of shock collars but the reality is they very rarely work. The dog will only learn if the aversion is associated with the undesirable behaviour. Most of the time neither dog nor owner is bright enough to make this happen!

A shock collar in the right hands could work but I am still waiting to find anyone with the right hands!

We did use a containment field collar and it was a life saver and also allowed the dogs to roam our fields in safety! Our staffie was a born escaper and had some near misses. Even at 15 yrs old she sticks two fingers up and wanders out into the Forest!

RE: Dog Behaviour (poor recall)

Dagmar Steele — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:46:15 GMT

Actually you have answered most of your questions yourself already. As long as the chase is more rewarding than coming back there'll be no change in behaviour. The chase itself ist self-rewarding, no need for success there and if success is achieved (eating rabbit carcass) all hope is lost, especially in a lab which loves to eat like no other breed. Retraining is certainly needed and will be hard graft. Recall needs to be rewarded by something very very enjoyable (labs generally love ball games or treats), chase needs to be avoided at all times (one successful escape will spoil months of training), so keep on a long lead trailing behind. Be always very alert when walking this dog to make sure no attempt to escape is ever successful (no chats, no other distractions allowed!). Try to install a routine where dog alerts owner to things to chase instead of instantly chasing them and reward this with treats. This needs a lot of work, time and patience (and yes, they should've done this a long time ago aka when/before it first started). Aversion stimuli are very hard to do right because they need impeccable timing. A tenth of a second too late and punishment will be connected to something completely different, unfortunately very often a desirable behaviour (like finally coming back or letting go) rather than the undesired behaviour. Shock collars for that reason are usually contra productive in most people's hands as 99% of them don't get the timing always spot on. As the aversion stimulus is very strong you may end up with a severely damaged dog with far serious problems than just poor recall. I don't deny they may work in the right hands, I'm just not convinced that the majority of dog handlers (including me) is able to use them in a way that'll do the trick without causing more problems. Find a good dog trainer they'll listen to, follow their advice and practice hard, otherwise tell them you're out ;-) Usually family will be worst to educate :-(