Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Jeremy Davies — Thu, 30 Mar 2017 22:23:29 GMT

I am an infrequent "forumite" and came across this by accident. Looks like feline medial epicondylitis (CdCr view would have helped). The cat may or may not be lame because of the tendinopathy per se and/or direct irritation of the ulnar nerve by the calcific material. Lesion similar to flexor enthesopathy in dogs.

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Claire Godfrey — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 15:00:19 GMT

The cat is doing fine now.

Came in on the 17th about 3/10th lame on right fore. Owner reported it had been non weight bearing the day before. nothing obvious on exam, went home for rest and NSAIDs, 1 week later perfectly fine.

So suspect soft tissue all along.

Thanks for all the help

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Anthony Todd — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 12:16:45 GMT

By the way, how's the cat and what was done?

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Aine Seavers — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 00:08:55 GMT

the under the table trays solve all of that and given that the price of floating xray top tables has tumbled from the made in China option, most practices in Australia would be digital/cr with the table- our newest floating one about 8 years ago cost about UK800 and means plates also clean so machine spotless at its yearly service and clean. Staff love it as so much easier to move top and animal around plate rather than plate around dog. Definitely consider one in your next practice update shop.

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Rob Loxley — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 16:19:46 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"] So processing faults, films and chemicals are a thing of the past![/quote]

With CR systems you can still get dust and dirt on your 'film' which will cause the same type of artefacts, and if your get any grit in the system (leaking sandbags!) then lovely linear scratches are possible and then it's a new CR cassette needed...

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 15:35:34 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]Most practices are using digital x-rays. So processing faults, films and chemicals are a thing of the past![/quote]

And thank goodness for that! Gerry talked about roller artefact which I thought meant the rollers in an auto processor.....

Manual or "auto" processors [which aren't!!] were a nightmare because the faults or defects were hardly ever the equipment.

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:55:14 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="robloxley"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]film hangers[/quote]

I suspect few people are still dunking by hand, rather have moved to automatic processors?

[/quote]

Same thing; you still get contamination of the "entry tray" where the film goes in and dirty rollers as you mention.

One other tip which, some may be unaware of, is that auto processors use very little developer [50 or 100ml a time?] yet the 2 or 5L container of developer is exposed in total to air and oxidises constantly so it pays to have a small pot of developer, that's unless they've improved things ny now.

[/quote]

Most practices are using digital x-rays. So processing faults, films and chemicals are a thing of the past!

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:42:55 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

The NICE guidance is quite clear:

Do not offer glucosamine or chondroitin products for the management of osteoarthritis.

[/quote]We are being bloody minded lately aren't we Michael? There are as many veterinary orthopaedic surgeons advising glucosamine/chondroitin supplements as not. Whether you do or not may depend on individual experience as not all cases will respond. IME There is a much better response in the very earliest stages of OA but it won't help if there is gross bony change and no cartilage left or if there is a mechanical reason for the lameness. I personally take it and am convinced it helps but I started before I was crippled. I've stopped and started a few times to weigh up the effect so I don't believe it is placebo. I offer it to my patients but tell clients that it is not a panacea - if it works continue, if it doesn't then stop.

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:35:32 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]film hangers[/quote]

I suspect few people are still dunking by hand, rather have moved to automatic processors?

[/quote]

Same thing; you still get contamination of the "entry tray" where the film goes in and dirty rollers as you mention.

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Rob Loxley — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 13:44:30 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]film hangers[/quote]

I suspect few people are still dunking by hand, rather have moved to automatic processors?

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Gerry Henry — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 13:39:51 GMT

Not in this case, there's clear roller artefact.

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:07:40 GMT

[quote user="claire godfrey"]Yes we definitely need to clean/service the xray machine[/quote]

Nothing wrong with the machine, clean the cassette or the digital equivalent and handle the film [if analogue] with dry hands, care and very clean film hangers.

Faults in pictures are hardly ever the machine,almost always the human element.

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Claire Godfrey — Tue, 16 Feb 2016 15:50:50 GMT

Hi,

This is the right fore.

Yes we definitely need to clean/service the xray machine, Will keep raising it.

Just to completely turn this on its head the owner has rung today to say the cat is actually limping on the right fore not the left fore so I don't that it is a significant cause of lameness!

I definitely questioned the owner on admission as there was no lameness present as it is only intermittent. Never mind.

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Gerry Henry — Tue, 16 Feb 2016 14:01:57 GMT

Irrespective you need to clean/service your X Ray machine, that plate is covered in scratches and artefact.

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 14:59:34 GMT

Have you got a view of the right one for comparison ? Does the distal humerous look the same ? I hasten to say I'm a retired GP vet , no expert

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Charlie G — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 11:47:20 GMT

Hello, I agree there is definitely some elbow pathology, but maybe not completely unexpected in a 10 year old cat - I'm always shocked at the degree of degenerative changes present in some older cats as an incidental finding when radiographing other areas and quite often they don't seem to show any signs. I'm not sure about the proximal humerus, it looks like there's possibly a few areas of radiolucency. Maybe you could re-radiograph in 3-4 weeks if still no response to rest + NSAIDs and at the same time get an image of the other elbow to see if the changes are bilateral? In the meantime maybe could try a course of cartrophen?

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 19:30:49 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]But that only relates to whether the NHS ought to pay for the stuff or not.[/quote]

No - if you look under rheumatoid arthritis it talks about recommending a Mediterranean diet. They could 'suggest the patient considers the use of certain nutraceuticals' if there was evidence.

If they spared drug usage and reduce joint wear (and the need for replacement) then I'm happy the NHS actually prescribing them. I'm not convinced they do.

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 19:27:02 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

The NICE guidance is quite clear:

Do not offer glucosamine or chondroitin products for the management of osteoarthritis.

[/quote]

But that only relates to whether the NHS ought to pay for the stuff or not.

I don't sell it but I don't object to people buying it if they want to try it.

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Stuart Jackson — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 19:23:59 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]only 1 step away from homeopathy[/quote]

That's unfair - you'll send this thread tangentially into infinite dilution and, thereby, irrelevance

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Anthony Todd — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 19:19:47 GMT

Bet it doesn't make the cat feel nearly as good as a shot of Depomed....

Just try and stop it jumping off the windowcill and it'll be fine.....

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 19:07:07 GMT

[quote user="sajackson"]Do you never offer glucosamine[/quote]

Offer it, no. Sell a bit - yes.

I will actively tell people there is little or no evidence it does anything but some people believe it may help.

As far as I am concerned it it only 1 step away from homeopathy.

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Stuart Jackson — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 19:01:54 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

The NICE guidance is quite clear:

Do not offer glucosamine or chondroitin products for the management of osteoarthritis.

[/quote]

That's NICE but where's the contra-evidence? NICE probably advises against it because of the cost benefit analysis. If there is a benefit and the client wants to pay, then that's completely different. There is much more anecdote, and science, in favour than there is against. There is scientific evidence of improvement with omegas.

Do you never offer glucosamine, based on NICE's opinion?

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 18:35:58 GMT

[quote user="sajackson"]Try adding glucosamine and omega 3.6.9[/quote]

Has there been a big scientific breakthrough I missed?

The NICE guidance is quite clear:

Do not offer glucosamine or chondroitin products for the management of osteoarthritis.

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Stuart Jackson — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 10:08:33 GMT

There is arthritic change in the region of the anconeal - trochlear notch and coronoid.

Try adding glucosamine and omega 3.6.9

RE: Cat elbow xray, would this cause lameness?

Claire Godfrey — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 09:05:58 GMT

Unfortunately only the one view taken.

all feels normal on palpation,

The cat was hit by a car about 6 years previous and owner questioned whether this was the leg injured but when looked at the notes it was a back leg, could have a had a secondary injury though possibly.