Who is using Purevax and why?

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Aine Seavers — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 23:19:17 GMT

Out of curiosity, what breed, what age and where for that cat? Your incidence of 1 cat in 40 years from a practitioner with a feline focus seems more the norm than the several in a few years from grumpyoldman so I am still keen to know the brand of m/chip used plus would also be good if the breeds of those noted given the genetic predisposition risk.

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 08:50:30 GMT

[quote user="Aine Seavers"]the problem with ISS is that vaccines its very hard to prove they were the cause[/quote]The one and only VSS I have seen had silver particles in the biopsy sample. There is only one reason that these would be present - as a vaccine adjuvant. In theory this would prove that a mass was vaccine related and the adjuvant particles should be present in every VSS. Agreed if there is nothing there other than tumour cells it is hard to prove or the histologist didn't look at the section with the incriminating evidence.

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Aine Seavers — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 23:33:43 GMT

the problem with ISS is that vaccines its very hard to prove they were the cause (other than rabies given in a isolated part of body like tail etc) but very easy to prove it was the m/chip as that is found in the biopsy. So vets inject lots of things in scruff and as soon as an ISS found then the vaccine is blamed-but not the other primary or cofactors like sw/c depot injects, oil based injections. As we move into genomic dispensing in humans based on your genetic profile to have an non or an over or an adverse response, we will isolate the issue more as well in VetMed as the risk of ISS is believed to run in genetic lines. That might explain why this thread contains a mention of one vet seeing quite a few, always near the m/chip as the genetic distribution in his practice making his patients more vulnerable or may be that his brand of m/chip is of MAJOR concern. For me it would be the latter as compulsory /chipping here in Aus since 2000 so all pets almost chipped but no ISS. We use the Avid m/chip, would love to know the brand of m.chip above that had ISS often near it.

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Anthony Todd — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 17:30:10 GMT

[quote user="Charlotte Marshall"]I don't think I've seen one since we swopped to purevax.[/quote]

Anyone anywhere ever seen a sarcoma after Purevax?

How many doses is this forum connected to in a year?

If each respondent on here gives their annual doses and the number of reactions then very quickly we can gather data and satisfy the academics......

Gives you all something to hang your fee and your decision onto.

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Charlotte Marshall — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 15:32:33 GMT

We have seen a few ISS over the years in this practice. But interestingly I don't think I've seen one since we swopped to purevax.

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 09:40:24 GMT

I've started using Purevax because Fevaxyn Pentofel became unavailable. I've had virtually no issues with VSS's (I've seen one in a 40 year career and that was vaccinated elsewhere) so that is not a reason the change. I disagree with Andy Sparks about chlamydia - it is an issue in my area and I always advise vaccination.

I take Merial's claims with a large pinch of salt as I would would with any others, indeed it was not so long ago that we were told we should all be using killed vaccines to prevent spread of live vaccine disease by aerosol or immunologically naive cats licking vaccine spillage. However, if the hype over the improved efficacy of the FCV vaccine is true then it it is worth it for that alone as vaccines against this have been notably ineffective for years.

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Aine Seavers — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 02:27:38 GMT

ISS lesions- 2% risk in genetic at risk lines and scapular scruff area high risk. Mostly rabies. However the 'proven' ones are from microchips, amoyx/clav based antibiotic, suture material and sc fluids-yet no Intervet funded WSAVA driven program to change our microchip or antibiotic use for the proven but we must do so for vaccines that in most countries where not rabies the proven incidence is zero (Australia) or minimal and suspected. So looking at the evidence, do we have a risk in most countries or do we have a scare campaign? .Certainly vets here in Oz very cranky to be told by changing their vaccines they could reduce their ISS risk- but when told by those of us who investigated that the proven cases at that time was zero so how can one improve on zero for vaccines but perhaps change review the others above-the vets were not happy at being under -informed.

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

grumpyoldman — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 15:51:29 GMT

Been using purvax for approx 2 years , seen no problems . We have seen several injection sarcomas. Probably one every 2-3 years interestingly I found they tended to happen adjacent to or involving the chip ?? could be incidental ,same site etc . make a note now about injection site , LH RH LA RA C . same places as the ECG leads . Too soon to say if its made any difference though .

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Lucy Fleming — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 13:24:17 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]I've seen one fibrosarcoma in the scruff in 16 years.[/quote]

I've seen one confirmed, and one suspected but never investigated (the latter was in a cat that had rarely been seen and had few injections, I'm not sure if he had ever been vaccinated! The former was a 7 year old that was PTS last month, exactly 2 months after she was first seen for the mass)

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Kate Richardson — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 16:57:04 GMT

[quote user="Emily Rainbow"]Recent webinar I watched by Andy Sparks on cat vacc said that purevax only one licenced to give panleukopaenia every 3rd year with only annual calici/herpes (closest to new data/wsava guidelines). Also data to suggest that purevax and pentofel best for felv protection but that the chlamydia in pentofel not really necessary.[/quote]

Nobivac cat vaccines are licensed for 3 years for panleukopaenia. I asked some questions re Purevax v other vaccines recently on the ISFM forum and the benefits were it is less likely to cause a reaction as non adjuvunated, so less risk of sarcomas and post vacination illness. 3 year panleukopaenia and also 1-3 years for FHV/FCV depending on risk as well which was new to me, so maybe that's where the confusion lies? FeLV still yearly. The other benefit mentioned was it contains two FCV strains, not just one, and is the only cat vaccine in the UK to show efficacy against virulent FCV strains. (From Danielle Gunn-Moore).

I haven't watched the webinar as yet.

I have no experience of using Purevax. I have used Nobivac vaccines for the last 9 years and have never seen an injection related sarcoma. I occasionally see small lumps at the site of vaccination which resolve spontaneously. (these are usually in cats that have wriggled a bit and I hypothesise that some of the vaccine has been deposited intradermally rather than subcutaneously- I think this is also the reason why some animals react to synulox/cerenia etc more than others but that's another thread.) I can only recall a couple of cases of post vaccination illness in cats.

The up to 3 year licence for flu is a good reason to use purevax as is the potentially better FCV cover provided.

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Anthony Todd — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 14:54:00 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]I've seen one fibrosarcoma in the scruff in 16 years.[/quote]

I don't recall any since 1970ish. Duphar/TVL vaccines since about 1972

The key thing might be the date of the first one recorded here though which might tie it in to a certain injection, cat bite or whatever.

We used the early FE vaccine, in glass snapules, stung like a lot, Bayer, I think, but not sure.

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Utlendigur — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 14:16:48 GMT

[quote user="Will McMullan"]

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

[quote user="Emily Rainbow"]he also said that if cat had 2x primary course then if it lapses at any point as an adult only a single booster needed rather than two to restart. [/quote]

Thank that's the consensus given in the WSAVA Vaccine guidelines, for cats and dogs.

[/quote]

Does '2x primary course' mean the two vaccinations at 8 and 10/12 weeks of age? Or do you mean they have had the full primary course twice already?

[/quote]

In the webinar they said the kitten course plus the first year booster (to catch any that hadn't responded because of MDI)- that was what they seemed to mean by the primary vaccinations

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Will McMullan — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 14:02:21 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

[quote user="Emily Rainbow"]he also said that if cat had 2x primary course then if it lapses at any point as an adult only a single booster needed rather than two to restart. [/quote]

Thank that's the consensus given in the WSAVA Vaccine guidelines, for cats and dogs.

[/quote]

Does '2x primary course' mean the two vaccinations at 8 and 10/12 weeks of age? Or do you mean they have had the full primary course twice already?

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Anthony Dennison — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 13:23:16 GMT

[quote user="Emily Rainbow"]he also said that if cat had 2x primary course then if it lapses at any point as an adult only a single booster needed rather than two to restart. [/quote]

Thank that's the consensus given in the WSAVA Vaccine guidelines, for cats and dogs.

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Bob Russell — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 11:52:17 GMT

In thirty years the only injection type sarcoma in a cat was on its chest. It was growing fast but I had not really considered a sarcoma as being that likely.

A shock when the histo came back but thankfully the sarcoma did not!

We think this was at a fight wound site!

It is very strange that peoples experiences of injection site sarcomas vary so much. WSAVA report includes a bit about sarcomas in right and left back legs (flu/ent/leuk in one leg, rabies in the other). Apparently no sarcomas in the flu leg but expected number in the rabies leg.

Intriguing!

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 10:23:28 GMT

Two, 1 had had an adjuvated Felv vac, the other was probably connected to either antibiotic or depo- med injection. I know, miniscule % but why take the risk with something so horrendous?

Actually I haven't vaccinated 1000s with an adjuvated vaccine, as I changed to non-adjuvenated ASAP

Wynne

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 10:08:49 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Given the horrendous nature of injection sarcomas, if there's even a chance the adjuvant is connected, I'd rather not take the risk[/quote]

Genuinely interested in how many of these you've seen? Considering you've probably vaccinated many 1000s of cats...?????

I've seen one fibrosarcoma in the scruff in 16 years.

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Utlendigur — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 10:02:00 GMT

Are you sure? Nobivac is licensed for the FPV every 3rd year, pretty sure many others are too given that FPV vaccines generate such long-lasting immunity. I've just gone back to the notes I made while watching the webinar and I got a note that the purevax is the only data sheet that says up to 3yrs immunity for FeLV vaccine.

PS webinar was a free one through International Cat care

http://icatcare.org:8080/learn/vets/webinars

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 22:21:23 GMT

[quote user="shanley barber"]Is is there any evidence [/quote]

This is redolent of the parvo vaccine struggle between manufacturers regarding age of first vacc. and duration of immunity.

Some of the evidence was extremely dodgy......

Seek the evidence guys; you may be surprised at the quality!

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

shanley barber — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 22:14:29 GMT

Hi Emily, I'd like to watch that webinar, if you could give me the details?

Thanks

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Ana Santos — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:41:20 GMT

My current practice uses Nobivac and my previous one used Purevax.

Never had a reaction with Purevax but I see a fair few with Nobivac: lumps on site of injection, lethargy post-vaccination lasting over 24h and limping syndrome.

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Emily Rainbow — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:40:05 GMT

Recent webinar I watched by Andy Sparks on cat vacc said that purevax only one licenced to give panleukopaenia every 3rd year with only annual calici/herpes (closest to new data/wsava guidelines). Also data to suggest that purevax and pentofel best for felv protection but that the chlamydia in pentofel not really necessary.

he also said that if cat had 2x primary course then if it lapses at any point as an adult only a single booster needed rather than two to restart.

Although CVR best off in a population with lots of flu as it's a modified live vacc so onset of immunity much quicker than the others.

If I were in charge i'd be switching to purevax as I feel complying with license for other brands is leading to over vaccination and as increased risk of injection site reactions although I've possibly seen only 1. In a cat that hadn't seen a vet for 8yrs so not 100% sure!

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

swansgirl — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:39:40 GMT

We use purevax in cats. According to rep safer and less incidence of vaccine site sarcomas.

Having said that I saw a rep from virbac today who said there was a recent study in America which showed pure vax was only 20% effective and no difference in safety. No idea if this is true as im currently trying to find the study as the rep couldn't give me any specifics! If anyone has a copy/link i'd love to read it myself

RE: Who is using Purevax and why?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:33:08 GMT

I use Purevax Given the horrendous nature of injection sarcomas, if there's even a chance the adjuvant is connected, I'd rather not take the risk

Wynne