Post neutering colitis

RE: Post neutering colitis

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 20:10:41 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]geraniums[/quote]

Chrysanthemums.

Geraniums are herbaceous perennials, found in the garden.

(Can't believe I know more about gardening than a retired person.......I must be getting old!)

RE: Post neutering colitis

Anthony Todd — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 19:59:19 GMT

I didn't even know you can get artificially dyed geraniums....!

I must say they looked almost too real and they were!!

I trusted ALDI.....

RE: Post neutering colitis

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 19:28:49 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"][bought some geraniums[?] from ALDI for the ball 'n chain; fantastic purplish until the colour drained into the water and dripped on the floor; didn't know plants did that] [/quote]

They will have been artificially dyed chrysanthemums.....hideous things! . Get her chocolates next time!

RE: Post neutering colitis

Anthony Todd — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 18:54:06 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]

My cat is exactly the same colour as my sofa. I got the sofa first.

[/quote]

I'm hyperventilating with anticipation, what colour are they!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[restraining from guessing]

[bought some geraniums[?] from ALDI for the ball 'n chain; fantastic purplish until the colour drained into the water and dripped on the floor; didn't know plants did that]

RE: Post neutering colitis

Anthony Todd — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 18:52:54 GMT

[quote user="John J"](not strictly adhered to)[/quote]

Herein lies a clue, even to the meanest intelligence, so the client is below this....

[quote user="John J"]Considering just taking off all meds and going with I/D diet and see what happens[/quote]

It'll do just as well or badly until the intellectually challenged client wakes up, if ever!

RE: Post neutering colitis

John J — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 18:39:28 GMT

Just to update on the case.. Sent the dog home on preds, panacur and tylosin the last day so has had 10 days of that in combination with home cooked bland diet (not strictly adhered to). Improvement only on 2 days out of the ten producing normal stools the rest of the time it's either pasty or watery with red blood. The owner also reports loss of urinary toilet training but normal urine.

Took abdominal xrays; normal except a lot of gas in intestines. Abdominal ultrasound didn't give any more clues. Ex-lap; uterine stump was dark kind of blue colour and was adhered to bladder wall. Colon was normal colour but prominent blood vessels. Rest of intestines were normal. Spleen was normal shape and size but about 1/3rd of it the capsule was a blueish colour.

The owner is getting understandably frustrated with a month of colitis and nothing really seems to be working. Considering just taking off all meds and going with I/D diet and see what happens

RE: Post neutering colitis

Lucy Fleming — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 11:05:49 GMT

My cat is exactly the same colour as my sofa. I got the sofa first.

RE: Post neutering colitis

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 16:55:24 GMT

Maybe dog owners tend not to buy pale carpets! Having said that my mother once deliberately bought a cream carpet because it matched a (male) cream retriever

Wynne

RE: Post neutering colitis

Anthony Todd — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 16:50:51 GMT

Most bitches lick off any bleeding before the owner notices, I suspect.[unless it's on the carpet!] Male dogs will know though....

RE: Post neutering colitis

Lucy Fleming — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 16:37:33 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]yes. They do continue to have seasons. They're just not as obvious because of the lack of bleeding.[/quote]

I thought that bleeding in an in-season bitch wasn't from uterine lining though, but blood cells moving through vaginal mucosa into the lumen? So might still occur? (I must admit I can't remember the exact hormonal driver for this one!)

RE: Post neutering colitis

Anthony Todd — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 09:43:10 GMT

[quote user="villagevet"]especially if uterus is enlarged/flaccid/cystic as I fear fluid retained here may be or will provide a suitable environment for infection.[/quote]

Yes, that's the reason I thought the uterus should always be removed but apparently, without some ovarian influence, not so.

Most of the problems with B/Ss is bleeding, at the ovarian or cervical end. Ovariectomy should eliminate those 'cos go won't have to stretch to get both ends.

Don't worry, every male dog in the park will spot one single ovarian cell sooner or later....

RE: Post neutering colitis

Lindsey Edwards — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 22:23:18 GMT

I'm sure it has been discussed on here before. Ovariectomy in young bitches with no age/hormonal uterine changes well accepted, can be done through short, more cranial incision which is centred over the ovarian pedicles and can ease ligature placement here. I still go ahead with ovariohysterectomy in older bitches, especially if uterus is enlarged/flaccid/cystic as I fear fluid retained here may be or will provide a suitable environment for infection.

RE: Post neutering colitis

Robin Grimmer — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 17:15:33 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

If you can't get uterine changes without ovarian tissue why isn't ovariectomy [spelling] practised more, and preferred, it's certainly easier?

[/quote]

It is - eg the laparoscopic method is just ovariectomy. But the ovarian stumps are the trickiest, so if you are doing a midline spay it's not much more difficult removing uterus as well. I certainly don't worry about going low down near cervix though, no point.

There was a video posted on here recently showing laparoscopic ovariectomy.

RE: Post neutering colitis

Anthony Todd — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 16:48:14 GMT

If you can't get uterine changes without ovarian tissue why isn't ovariectomy [spelling] practised more, and preferred, it's certainly easier?

RE: Post neutering colitis

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 12:54:00 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"] but if the ovarian remnant is necessary wouldn't the bitch come on heat?[/quote]

yes. They do continue to have seasons. They're just not as obvious because of the lack of bleeding.

RE: Post neutering colitis

Anthony Todd — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 23:00:48 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]I see your point, but how common is a stump infection? Cos I've never seen one,[/quote]

I think if you palpated the area after a B/S you'd often find a "granuloma" say 2cms, or more where you'd expect the cervix to be. I suppose you could call that an infection? Catgut never seemed to cause a "reaction" in other areas.

Never seemed to give problems and I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a post-spay pyo. but if the ovarian remnant is necessary wouldn't the bitch come on heat?

RE: Post neutering colitis

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 22:43:21 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"] Ovarian tissue is needed for a stump pyometria[/quote]

Surely "uterine tissue is needed" and I don't think you need any ovarian tissue but I stand to be corrected on that. And you can feel a "stump" infection quite easily, BTW so probably should be able to be eliminated in this case?

PS Do you get pyos in ovariectomised bitches, which some bitches had, and the uterus was left?

It's a new and "safer" way apparently...

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/13_12/features/Safer-Spaying-Methods_20144-1.html

[/quote]

No, Wynne is right. It's caused by the action of progesterone from ovarian remnants on uterine tissue:

What is it? A true stump pyometra is an uncommon problem which refers to a hormone (progesterone) mediated infection of a remnant of the uterus. The term stump pyometra is often misused for a more common condition, a stump granuloma, which is focal inflammation of remnant uterine tissue, often caused by a reaction to suture material and which may or may not have bacterial infection at the same time.

RE: Post neutering colitis

Anthony Todd — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 22:32:52 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"] Ovarian tissue is needed for a stump pyometria[/quote]

PS Do you get pyos in ovariectomised bitches, which some bitches had, and the uterus was left?

It's a new and "safer" way apparently...

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/13_12/features/Safer-Spaying-Methods_20144-1.html

RE: Post neutering colitis

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 22:24:08 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Ovarian tissue is needed for a stump pyometria, but not for a post-op stump infection

Wynne

[/quote]

Never seen one of those either.

Robin

RE: Post neutering colitis

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:36:04 GMT

Ovarian tissue is needed for a stump pyometria, but not for a post-op stump infection

Wynne

RE: Post neutering colitis

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 20:51:59 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]vomiting followed by passage of some colitic type faeces with blood resulting from local peritonitis in the area of the transverse colon. [/quote]

Couldn't an infected uterine stump or infection in that area cause just that?

[only because the time-line seems relevant?]

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]Given that pancreatitis is so prevalent in this breed and can be triggered by recent surgery, I'd say it's worth checking for.[/quote]

For sure.

[/quote]

I see your point, but how common is a stump infection? Cos I've never seen one, and don't they have to have incomplete removal of ovarian tissue to occur? Whereas pancreatitis in a Min Schnauzer is extremely common.

RE: Post neutering colitis

Anthony Todd — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 18:56:49 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]vomiting followed by passage of some colitic type faeces with blood resulting from local peritonitis in the area of the transverse colon. [/quote]

Couldn't an infected uterine stump or infection in that area cause just that?

[only because the time-line seems relevant?]

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]Given that pancreatitis is so prevalent in this breed and can be triggered by recent surgery, I'd say it's worth checking for.[/quote]

For sure.

RE: Post neutering colitis

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 15:55:31 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]The colon is anatomically quite close to the pancreas[/quote]

It's also close to the uterine stump too... although I've never heard of the stump causing these signs, but its't it a bit too coincidental?

[/quote]From Nelson and Couto re pancreatitis : dogs may present with mild gi signs including anorexia and vomiting followed by passage of some colitic type faeces with blood resulting from local peritonitis in the area of the transverse colon. Given that pancreatitis is so prevalent in this breed and can be triggered by recent surgery, I'd say it's worth checking for.

RE: Post neutering colitis

Anthony Todd — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 14:03:45 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]The colon is anatomically quite close to the pancreas[/quote]

It's also close to the uterine stump too... although I've never heard of the stump causing these signs, but isn't it a bit too coincidental?

RE: Post neutering colitis

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 12:46:21 GMT

In this breed I would check for pancreatitis. The colon is anatomically quite close to the pancreas so could be secondary to that, even without classic signs.