Help with tortoise prolapse

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 22:57:02 GMT

Brilliant!

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

Ashley Rubens — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 22:38:38 GMT

Sorry not very clear, there was some regurgitation at the time but since starting treatment it's been a one way system!

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 19:51:42 GMT

[quote user="Ashley Rubens"] seem to be making progress as we've seen some gravel from both ends[/quote]

Great to hear that you see progress..and if it is eating well then that's great.....but this comment has worried me. Do you mean that the tortoise is 'vomitting'? Reptiles can't actively vomit, so if they are regurgitating material it is abnormal...and usually means a complete GI blockage or terminal event.

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

Ashley Rubens — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 08:21:02 GMT

[quote user="serena holmes"]

How did u manage to add a photo to this forum from an iPhone? I have tried and failed many times!!

[/quote]

I gave up, emailed the picture to a desktop computer and logged in from there to edit the post!

Tortoise update - very bright and active, regular baths andleafy greens seem to be making progress as we've seen some gravel from both ends, repeat radiograph in monday showed about a third less material.

Thanks again to all, especially Gillian

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

serena holmes — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 01:57:05 GMT

How did u manage to add a photo to this forum from an iPhone? I have tried and failed many times!!

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 10:42:40 GMT

Gillian Your exotics info is really usefull

Wynne

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 10:23:43 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]A very, very, slow one, no doubt![/quote]

A common misconception - actually, a healthy tortoise is pretty speedy!

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

Mark Hedberg — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 08:47:21 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

If you can get a treadmill for a tortoise, that would be great!!!

[/quote]

A very, very, slow one, no doubt!

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 20:17:14 GMT

Well, now you link to it, there is a thought that pica in tortoises is fairly 'normal in the wild', but that their lack of movement/exercise by being restricted to a small viv is one of the reasons they obstruct. If you can get a treadmill for a tortoise, that would be great!!!

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

Ashley Rubens — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 19:05:29 GMT

That is absolutely fantastic, thank you very much Gillian!

Unfortunately no horizontal beam taken - I had to dump the work up onto someone else this morning as I had farm calls. Will follow your advice and keep fingers crossed then.

For completeness one of my colleagues found this:

http://news.cision.com/animal-protection-agency/r/vibrating-tortoise-is--cured--as-experts-warn-that-tortoises-are-not-easy-pets,c9348516

but I think I'll try your suggestion instead!

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 14:02:18 GMT

Good picture. (You didn't happen to get horizontal beams too did you?)

Manage medically, especially as you say it is still moving around and eating. Odd distribution though.... you'd think that the majority were in stomach but assuming that the microchip is on LHS then I guess they must be in large intestine? In which case they should pass OK.

Anyway, they should pass without too much bother either way - lots of fluids (you'll probably be ok with subcut atthis stage) and feed lots of juicy greens!! Often the gravel itself isn't the problem - it is the dry impacted material it is sat in that causes the blockage. (Think of it like a cooked bone in a dog's large intestine). Bath (warm water, half way up shell) 3 or 4 times daily. Obviously must be kept in a suitable vivarium - DONT just hospitalise sat on a heat pad - the gut won't work unless temps are good enough.

I wouldn't be attempting surgery unless the situation deteriorates significantly. I assume your prolapse was mainly cloacal? (I can't imagine that you'd be able to replace a significant colonic prolapse without needing surgery) but , if so, expect the tortoise to re-prolapse some cloacal tissue every time faeces passed - but I wouldn't worry unless large intestine involved. Just keep popping it back in - it will settle with time. Don't purse-string - will make straining worse. Keep up with decent analgesia. You'll be amazed how quickly tortoises will clear the gut when things start moving.

If tortoise stops eating, or doesn't pass any faeces within 24-48hrs, then re-radiograph to see if you're getting any movement. You may need to think about referring at that point - or if large intestine prolapses.

Good luck!

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

Ashley Rubens — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:28:34 GMT

apolgies if this file is massive - iPhones not ideal for adding to forums!

Suspect this is the gravel substrate the tortoise lives on, can this be managed medically or should we be getting the saw / referral list out?!

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

Mark Hedberg — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 09:01:38 GMT

[quote user="Ashley Rubens"]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

They can be really fiddly. Sugar can help reduce the oedema...

Have you looked for, and found, the cause of the proplapse yet?

[/quote]

I did put some sugar on, wasn't sure if I should admit to it though! Seemed to help. No cause obvious, will give the poor thing a night to recover / get some benefit from pain relief and that will be tomorrows job.

[/quote]

By all means admit to it - sugar is then effectively a hypertonic solution and draws in fluid, simple osmosis, reducing size of organ to put back. Salt would do the same thing, except that unlike sugar, salt stings like a "£$&^%&"!!! (so wouldn't ever recommend salting a prolapse.)

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 08:51:51 GMT

Gillian You're always informative when it comes to exotics.

I've claimed you for CPD

Wynne

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

Ashley Rubens — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 22:58:26 GMT

Thank you, will get on with calcium supplementation.

Very good condition, very bright and active despite what I've just done to it, good shell, havent had a long conversation about husbandry with the owner so will need a more detailed chat but she seems very well informed (all the more disappointing that her usual vet (uses vets4pets for the tortoise as they market themselves for exotics and is for cats and dog) had told her to push it back in and make an appointment for Monday), but will ask about substrate, worming and diet in a bit more detail tomorrow.

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 22:26:57 GMT

I use Vetark zolcal D oral solution- so that is 0.1ml per 100g, once daily.

Investigations are always challenging in a 150g tortoise. The main things you need to be checking for/rule out would be calcium issues (general condition/shell quality/strength??) and gut blockage due to intestinal FB (what substrate is it housed on?). An older tortoise would also need to be checked for reproductive problems (esp female) and urinary calculi/sludge. Faecal analysis could certainly be useful to check for enteritis due to a heavy parasite burden.

What is the general condition of the tortoise - is it still eating etc?? What is it's husbandry like?

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

Ashley Rubens — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 22:13:37 GMT

How much calcium would you give?

Was Also thinking faecal analysis? Or would that not be worthwhile? I'll be handing over to a colleague but they'll probably appreciate a plan!

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 22:07:20 GMT

They almost always have calcium issues so give some oral zolcal - even if hypocalcaemia isn't the direct cause of the prolapse, it often contributes.

[quote user="Ashley Rubens"]I did put some sugar on, wasn't sure if I should admit to it though! [/quote]

Absolutely- just make sure you wash it off again before replacing the tissue! Then cotton buds, lube and patience!

Radiographs and bloods tomorrow then?

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

Ashley Rubens — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 21:32:20 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

They can be really fiddly. Sugar can help reduce the oedema...

Have you looked for, and found, the cause of the proplapse yet?

[/quote]

RE: Help with tortoise prolapse

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 21:23:33 GMT

They can be really fiddly. Sugar can help reduce the oedema...

Have you looked for, and found, the cause of the proplapse yet?