Early (EARLY!) neutering of bitches

RE: Early (EARLY!) neutering of bitches

Catriona MacIntyre — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 19:55:13 GMT

Thanks for the input folks.

I'll need to try and find out whether it has been "fully" spayed.

My main concerns about the super early neutering were potential problems with persistent vaginitis, and possible behavioural consequences

RE: Early (EARLY!) neutering of bitches

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 18:56:52 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]Not sure I've read anything quite as patronising on this site for a while. Well done.[/quote]Well you know you can always rely on me - just go and check the Feline USG thread!

Not patronising just realistic.

RE: Early (EARLY!) neutering of bitches

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 17:55:22 GMT

[quote user="ceri stewart"]But if you have no intention of ever breeding (as many pet owners don't), you might think it was a really good thing that you don't have to worry about deciding when to get your puppy neutered, or messy seasons, or risk of accidental pregnancy. [/quote]

Yes, ish.... but if they've just had their fallopian tubes cauterised, the new owner, all unsuspecting, is still going to have to cope with oestrus (and quite possibly pyometra and mammary neoplasia....)

RE: Early (EARLY!) neutering of bitches

David Mills — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 17:36:01 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Ceri, you have a lot to learn, once you have qualified and experienced a few dog breeders you may not feel the same way. [/quote]

Not sure I've read anything quite as patronising on this site for a while. Well done.

Re OP, at charities as Anthony says we do them early, usually no less than 10w. The surgery is a cinch, its just the GA that is more risk. No reason why they couldn't be done at 8w, possibly a bit more fiddly but having said that pups recover far more quickly than adults and then its happy days.

RE: Early (EARLY!) neutering of bitches

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 14:17:24 GMT

Ceri, you have a lot to learn, once you have qualified and experienced a few dog breeders you may not feel the same way. IME responsible and breeder are an oxymoron. Responsible breeders are unfortunately the exception not the rule. It is their over-breeding and in-breeding that causes the majority of congenital issues we see so they are hardly likely to care whether someone else is over-breeding. You're right it doesn't matter to the puppy owner because they have not given any thought to the real reasons behind it which is self protectionism any more than they have probably given to the problems with the breed they are buying because their choice is fashion/status/image led. Perhaps they would welcome a pre-spayed bitch but only because that means they don't have to bother themselves

I was going to say sorry to sound so cynical, but I'm not, and I don't think you'll find too many vets who don't feel the same.

RE: Early (EARLY!) neutering of bitches

ceri stewart — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:30:39 GMT

But if you have no intention of ever breeding (as many pet owners don't), you might think it was a really good thing that you don't have to worry about deciding when to get your puppy neutered, or messy seasons, or risk of accidental pregnancy. Why would it matter to the puppy owner whether the breeder is doing it because of "greed", "welfare" or a desire to make sure their bloodlines are not used for breeding outside their own control? Maybe a responsible breeder might not want to risk inexperienced people taking entire females and over-breeding them, or mating them with inappropriate sires (inappropriate maybe due to size, breed, or lack of health testing)?

RE: Early (EARLY!) neutering of bitches

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 09:21:12 GMT

I don't have an issue with early neutering, after all its not age that is the factor but size and safety of anaesthetics. What I object to is the ethical issue of a breeder pre-determining who can and cannot breed from their puppies. This is not a welfare consideration on their behalf just greed to prevent competition. As Anthony points out early neutering is advocated by the RSPCA to prevent unwanted litters so there is no argument over welfare issues so the only way to stop this practice is for people to vote with their feet and not buy pups from these breeders. Sadly, as we all know, the people who want these puppies are stupid and so bent on getting a designer pup that they throw their brains out of the window and wouldn't think this way.

RE: Early (EARLY!) neutering of bitches

Anthony Dennison — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 09:07:37 GMT

I did wonder whether it was Gerry Henry's client when I read this!

RSPCA neuter really early too - at the shelter I do work for they have 9 week old kittens coming from GMAH that have already been neutered. Dogs are done as early as 10-12 weeks when they can.

RE: Early (EARLY!) neutering of bitches

Rob Loxley — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 23:21:19 GMT

[quote user="Catriona MacIntyre"]Had a quick look Rob, but most posts were considering pre- first oestrus as early.[/quote]

http://www.vetsurgeon.org/uk/small_animal/f/9/p/10079/51096.aspx

http://www.vetsurgeon.org/uk/small_animal/f/161/p/21535/130252.aspx#130252

RE: Early (EARLY!) neutering of bitches

cathal rafferty — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 22:12:04 GMT

Hi catriona,

is the client sure it is fully neutered?

recently where i am based we have seen puppies that have had a salpingectomy at a very young age. Essentially it involves laparoscopically cauterising the fallopian tube to prevent breeding at the breeder's behest. They seem to be done at 6-8weeks. The ovaries are left in and so they have to be speyed properly later on. We have found this a bit tricky as there are often adhesions which make exteriorising the ovary quite difficult.

The vet council of ireland recently published a statement on it saying they consider it unethical, so hopefully we won't see any more.

RE: Early (EARLY!) neutering of bitches

Joyce Whitehead — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 22:06:51 GMT

It seems this is a specific Labradoodle thing - see this thread and Gerry Henry post specifically.

http://www.vetsurgeon.org/uk/small_animal/f/161/p/21535/130252.aspx#130252

RE: Early (EARLY!) neutering of bitches

Catriona MacIntyre — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 20:53:22 GMT

Had a quick look Rob, but most posts were considering pre- first oestrus as early.

RE: Early (EARLY!) neutering of bitches

Rob Loxley — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 20:03:53 GMT

[quote user="Catriona MacIntyre"]Have other folks seen this[/quote]

Have a search - this has come up a few times before on these forums

RE: Early (EARLY!) neutering of bitches

Catriona MacIntyre — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 19:52:42 GMT

No Utlendigur, I think it is from somewhere in Fife. I also questioned the Antipodean component!

RE: Early (EARLY!) neutering of bitches

Utlendigur — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 19:49:45 GMT

Have seen one - also an Australian Labradoodle - also spayed at 8wks. Wasn't from somewhere in the Welsh marches was it? Not sure why a lab cross is Australian if it's born in the UK...