Medication for pets of transplant patients

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:35:25 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]Post op complications of splenectomy in humans are much more complex than I realised. Is the advice for canines post splenectomy more complicated now? The risk of sepsis is considered very high in humans and antibiotic cover is given for a year or more. What do you all recommend for dogs nowadays? I'm getting a bit rusty clinically ( not physically) [/quote]Given that the majority of splenectomies in dogs are for neoplasia and they are going to have chemotherapy subsequently there are greater considerations. However, I have never considered a splenectomy a major risk factor per se and those which had benign lesions have gone on to live problem free lives, certainly none have ever been given or needed antibiotic therapy.

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 21:16:02 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]One doctor recommended she be vaccinated for chicken pox as she had not had it as a child and another said they never vaccinate for chicken pox . [/quote]

If an immune compromised person has known exposure to chicken pox, their titre is checked and if they are immunologically naive they receive immunoglobulin. Quickly, because it can often be fatal. Learned through bitter experience, when my (at that point unknown) pox ridden children spent the day with my Dad, who had received a kidney transplant a few months previously. (He had had chicken pox as a child too.)

[/quote]She has been vaccinated now but thanks for that information, will pass it on to my sister in law but it must be difficult or impossible to know if you have been exposed to infection . Post op complications of splenectomy in humans are much more complex than I realised. Is the advice for canines post splenectomy more complicated now? The risk of sepsis is considered very high in humans and antibiotic cover is given for a year or more. What do you all recommend for dogs nowadays? I'm getting a bit rusty clinically ( not physically)

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 20:19:51 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]One doctor recommended she be vaccinated for chicken pox as she had not had it as a child and another said they never vaccinate for chicken pox . [/quote]

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 15:48:11 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Mellor"]

As a slight aside but sort of relevant , I was told that transplant patients or chemo patients ie heavily immunocompromised should never have their dogs given KC vaccine as it is live and they shed and bordetella can be fatal in people- this came from vaccine rep years ago.

[/quote]my spleenless niece was told not to have contact with the family dog for a month after KC vaccine . One doctor recommended she be vaccinated for chicken pox as she had not had it as a child and another said they never vaccinate for chicken pox .

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Bob Russell — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 13:56:40 GMT

University of Wurzburg states no known human cases but as it is very similar to the measles virus perhaps it makes sense!

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 13:29:50 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]I cannot see how the live components in the standard injectable vaccines can be a threat to a human[/quote]I believe that canine distemper virus can cause disease in humans so it could be a theoretical risk.

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Bob Russell — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 12:16:21 GMT

Most people on chemo will be made aware of the risks whilst on medication but transplant patients are more likely to become blase over the years!

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Wren — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 11:43:15 GMT

The other thing to consider is people on chemo - much more common and often seriously immunocompromised.

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Bob Russell — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 10:59:07 GMT

Not sure how much time to book but these threads can be little gems. Where else would we get a discussion about medication/vaccination for patients in households with transplant owners?

I cannot see how the live components in the standard injectable vaccines can be a threat to a human but I will include a question about immunosuppressed owners pre-KC vaccination. It really could be a risk for the unwary as transplants etc have become more common over the last decades.

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 10:34:59 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"] Faith in the NHS restored: this was not something he recommended they look into![/quote]This was fairly predictable, although I do stand by by comments on the competence/range of expertise of some doctors.

[quote user="Bob Russell"]This one will definitely go into my CPD file![/quote]I will be doing likewise. How much do you think its worth - 30 minutes?

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Andrew Mellor — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:37:17 GMT

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Bob Russell — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:13:42 GMT

A thread leaving us all a little more educated on a subject that we probably had not even considered a subject!!

This one will definitely go into my CPD file!

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Lucy Fleming — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 08:48:22 GMT

Thanks all....

An update on what turned out to be a rather dull story. I'm not even sure that there actually was a transplant involved in the first place (from speaking to the client, it sounds like that may have been something our receptionist misunderstood). When I spoke to the doctor (local GP, who very kindly called me back about a conversation it turned out he had several months ago!) it seems like it was something the client raised - if there was any way to make the pet less allergenic. I think he did the same googling as me and found the same odd article. Faith in the NHS restored: this was not something he recommended they look into!

[quote user="robloxley"]Klucka, Charles V.; Ownby, Dennis R.; Green, Jack; Zoratti, Edward (June 1, 1995). "Cat shedding of Fel d I is not reduced by washings, Allerpet-C spray, or acepromazine". The Journal of allergy and clinical immunology 95 (6): 1164–1171. doi:10.1016/S0091-6749(95)70072-2. PMID 7797784. Retrieved September 1, 2010. Conclusions: Our data do not show significant reductions in Fel d I shedding as a result of any of these treatments. Therefore we cannot recommend them to patients allergic to cats.[/quote]

Thanks for that, I will mention that to the owner when I catch up with her!

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Rob Loxley — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 22:47:42 GMT

Klucka, Charles V.; Ownby, Dennis R.; Green, Jack; Zoratti, Edward (June 1, 1995). "Cat shedding of Fel d I is not reduced by washings, Allerpet-C spray, or acepromazine". The Journal of allergy and clinical immunology 95 (6): 1164–1171. doi:10.1016/S0091-6749(95)70072-2. PMID 7797784. Retrieved September 1, 2010. Conclusions: Our data do not show significant reductions in Fel d I shedding as a result of any of these treatments. Therefore we cannot recommend them to patients allergic to cats.

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Nhombokisheni — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 22:09:34 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

One useful nugget I picked up at London vet show last year was that the protein that causes the allergies in people comes from the anal sacs, and the cat spreads it over the coat when it grooms. So if you should do anything it would be removal of the anal sacs. I don't of course condone this!

[/quote]

I believe the claim is that to varying degrees cat saliva contains the protein fel-d1 which is spread onto the coast during grooming. When the coast dries, this allergen becomes airborne and so affects sensitized individuals. It maybe therefore that the individual is a known reactor to this protein.

ACP is/was believed to be beneficial in reducing levels of this protein in shedders .... it will be interesting to hear from the horse's mouth.

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 17:15:52 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

[/quote]i wonder how they discovered that. Not a research project that would instantly appeal.

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 17:06:34 GMT

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Bob Russell — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 15:15:18 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]

Hmmm... the plot thickens. I spoke to the owner, who has given me the doctor's contact details, but said that she has been told that it is something to do with micro doses of ACP reducing antigen levels in the cat's saliva and thus histamine release in humans. After more targeted googling, it appears I may need some of our homeopathic colleagues to pipe up and clarify this further (until I speak to the doctor...)

http://www.petcarenaturally.com/articles/people-with-allergies-to-pets.php

[/quote]

Load of ignorant bo**ocks. I would be running like hell to a different GP and surgeon if they believe any of this tosh!!

No way I would allow anyone considering this rubbish near me to decide on a transplant, let alone someone with rib spreaders and a crazy smile!

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 14:26:36 GMT

[quote user="Joyce Whitehead"] I would imagine a transplant recipient is on such massive doses of immunosuppressants that an allergic reaction would be much less likely than an infection. [/quote]Exactly. Quote: 'Ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do or die' misquote!

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Joyce Whitehead — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 13:38:14 GMT

Homeopathic ACP seems to take the biscuit really in terms of nutty treatments. Surely if she is going to develop an allergic reaction Petal Cleanse would make more sense. I'm sitting wondering if were she not allergic to the cat before, would her new lungs react if they were from a person who did have a cat allergy? Surely her immune response is central, although maybe there is some local response?

In addition I would imagine a transplant recipient is on such massive doses of immunosuppressants that an allergic reaction would be much less likely than an infection.

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 12:21:34 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]she has been told that it is something to do with micro doses of ACP reducing antigen levels in the cat's saliva and thus histamine release in humans. [/quote]Even if this was relevant, let alone true, surely if they were that worried about the cat's saliva it would be simpler just to not to let it lick you at all. Or maybe just the act of stroking it where it has groomed itself is enough. I'd be interested to know why the histamine release thing is an issue anyway and if it is, how this person will go thorough daily life with all the other challenges that could cause histamine release. This is surely making a mountain out of a molehill.

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Julian Earl — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 11:56:36 GMT

We use benazepril to reduce proteinuria in renal patients of course and what does this have in common with ACP? They both reduce the blood pressure. Does that have an bearing on reducing proteinuria. But surely if this daughter has proteinuria, she has a kidney problem anyway? Just my two-pence-worth re. the BP link perhaps.

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 11:54:47 GMT

It will be interesting to hear the science behind this. I know the doctor gave my niece all sorts of dire warnings about their pet cat after she had to have an emergency splenectomy due to a freak skiing accident but had no qualms about her going back to Freshers week which I would have thought a pretty immune challenging environment. Maybe the ACP just sends the cat to sleep all the time reducing the risk of scratches.

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Lucy Fleming — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 11:26:31 GMT

http://www.petcarenaturally.com/articles/people-with-allergies-to-pets.php

RE: Medication for pets of transplant patients

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 11:07:44 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]It seems a little harsh to suggest that someone who is qualified enough to perform a human lung transplant has a lack of scientific knowledge,[/quote]It never ceases to amaze me how poor doctor's knowledge of medical problems outside their immediate sphere is let alone being able to transpose this to other species. They clearly don't lack scientific knowledge just common sense IME. He may be the best thoracic surgeon in the world but has little experience/knowledge of other parts of human medicine, or has forgotten them, let alone veterinary science.

I went to see a back specialist a few months ago and had X-rays and an MRI scan. I asked him to have a look at my kidneys while he was at it and he replied that he wouldn't even know what he was looking for. We both managed to identify my balls though!!

What is odd is that it doesn't seem to happen the other way round, maybe something to do with doctors being failed vets and us being trained to be omni-competent.