Is it me or...

RE: Is it me or...

Julian Earl — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 10:57:59 GMT

Re. the differentials and infectious pneumonia, Fog fevers are mildly pyrexic and tend not to cough. They show marked "Air Hunger and can have nasty grey mucous membranes and can even be a little bloated as they don't have time to eructate. I believe the only treatment reported to help i.e. delay inevitable death has been flunixin. I think the history at grass makes infection less likely anyway, and husk-cases cough for all they are worth. HTH

RE: Is it me or...

Sophie Aylett — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 10:24:06 GMT

We have this one in the office - quite good pictures on a range of conditions.

– 1 Dec 1991

by Roger Blowey BSc BVSc FRCVS (Author), David J. Taylor MA PhD VetMB (Author), Stephen A. Lister (Author), Clifford Stuart (Author), Agnes C. Winter (Author), Michael R. Clarkson MB (Author)

RE: Is it me or...

Seadna — Sun, 11 Oct 2015 13:29:25 GMT

Sorry (and thanks) to Neil, I find it hard to figure out who said what on my mobile phone.

Yeah, the point I keep trying to make to farmers and the one they refuse to grasp is that our expanding the practice (which we could never do without attracting small animal clients) means we will be hiring more vets which means that when they need a ewe lambed in the thick of spring their already minimal waiting time will be even shorter. But I suppose there will always be arseholes and thankfully we have more than enough saint-like clients to make up for it!

Good luck with the new venture Michael.

RE: Is it me or...

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 10 Oct 2015 22:10:13 GMT

[quote user="Seadna "]If I think of any particular situations I will come on here for a bit of advice but in the meantime you gave me plenty of online resources to plough through :)[/quote]

That was Neil - I just tagged you!

[quote user="Seadna "]I'm in Northern Ireland and I don't get across the water much for CPD unfortunately. I go to anything that our VSD lab guys are speaking at though. [/quote]

SRUC did a good farm path CPD course last year. There is another guy in northern England where a former AHVLA vet is working privately. Not easy for you!

[quote user="Seadna "]You want bitching? I aim to please: My boss has just opened up a new clinic full of bells and whistles. I've had 3 farmers in this week so far giving me grief that the drug prices are too high and that they the poor farmers are paying for our new lovely white walls and equipment for the silly dogs and cats that we will probably show preference to in the future etc etc. It is so hard to hold my tongue and continue to be polite to these utter arseholes. Not one of them would say the same thing if the boss was standing in front of them. They see a smiling girl behind the counter and they suddenly turn into bullies. [/quote]

Feel better now you have that off your chest?

It is funny how people behave. I get less moaning about prices now we own the practice, but I do get the really angry ones! It's an impossible balancing act between making money, reinvesting in staff, buildings etc and keeping the moaners at bay. I think if you gave things away at cost and charged nothing for our time someone would still moan!

We are working on purchasing a new site - I expect the moaning!

RE: Is it me or...

Seadna — Sat, 10 Oct 2015 20:57:41 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Do you have any particular conditions in mind? Realistically with post mortems there is generally something grossly abnormal.

Where are you based? Roughly (by PM if you want). There are a couple of courses that are good.

[/quote]

I'm in Northern Ireland and I don't get across the water much for CPD unfortunately. I go to anything that our VSD lab guys are speaking at though.

If I think of any particular situations I will come on here for a bit of advice but in the meantime you gave me plenty of online resources to plough through :)

You want bitching? I aim to please: My boss has just opened up a new clinic full of bells and whistles. I've had 3 farmers in this week so far giving me grief that the drug prices are too high and that they the poor farmers are paying for our new lovely white walls and equipment for the silly dogs and cats that we will probably show preference to in the future etc etc. It is so hard to hold my tongue and continue to be polite to these utter arseholes. Not one of them would say the same thing if the boss was standing in front of them. They see a smiling girl behind the counter and they suddenly turn into bullies.

Do you have any particular conditions in mind? Realistically with post mortems there is generally something grossly abnormal.

Where are you based? Roughly (by PM if you want). There are a couple of courses that are good.

RE: Is it me or...

grumpyoldman — Thu, 08 Oct 2015 15:39:37 GMT

Its a long time ago but I remember treating a few with iv lasix, vetibenzamine , and an interesting mixture Norbrook used to make Called tetrachlorazone , which was a subtle blend of chloramphenicol 200mg/ml tetracycline 100mg/ml and dexamethasone 10mg /ml . Probably not available now outside Eire. They recovered to get to slaughter but retained stethoscope noise that sounded just like a WHW with PIF. So turns out there is more LA SA overlap than you think .

RE: Is it me or...

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 22:21:12 GMT

[quote user="Seadna "]On a slightly related note, is there such a thing as a good pathology textbook for farm animals? I enjoy a good PM but I struggle to find good sources of reference for things like gross changes to organs i.e. stuff that I can use to make a farmyard diagnosis.[/quote]

There is no easy 'go to' book, but I have a number of books with pictures of various conditions. Do you have any particular conditions in mind? Realistically with post mortems there is generally something grossly abnormal.

Where are you based? Roughly (by PM if you want). There are a couple of courses that are good.

[quote user="Seadna "]Oh man that cow is so dead! My last good large animal friend left practice a few weeks ago so I currently have nobody to have a bitch at...[/quote]

Bitch at us. I like that!

RE: Is it me or...

Seadna — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 20:49:10 GMT

Oh man that cow is so dead! My last good large animal friend left practice a few weeks ago so I currently have nobody to have a bitch at...

On a slightly related note, is there such a thing as a good pathology textbook for farm animals? I enjoy a good PM but I struggle to find good sources of reference for things like gross changes to organs i.e. stuff that I can use to make a farmyard diagnosis.

RE: Is it me or...

Catriona MacIntyre — Sun, 04 Oct 2015 15:29:40 GMT

[quote user="Rachel Brown "]

I get a lot of 4G, except in the black hole

[/quote]

RE: Is it me or...

Rachel Brown — Sun, 04 Oct 2015 15:15:11 GMT

I get a lot of 4G, except in the black hole

RE: Is it me or...

Catriona MacIntyre — Sat, 03 Oct 2015 20:12:29 GMT

[quote user="Rachel Brown "]

Maybe us large animal vets get the time to bitch to ourselves/friends whilst driving around between calls. I enjoy my daily 'discussion' with a colleague on the phone as we are usually both in the car at 2:30pm.

[/quote]

You get good enough mobile reception for telephone conversations? I'm SO jealous!

RE: Is it me or...

Rachel Brown — Sat, 03 Oct 2015 20:06:54 GMT

RE the OP's cow- negative faecal doesn't rule out lungworm infestation, including reinfection syndrome. Saw dairy and suckler cows with suspect lungworm last weekend.

RE: Is it me or...

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 21:26:36 GMT

[quote user="Catriona MacIntyre"]Are you sure it is Potassium Iodide? I thought it was Sodium Iodide. I think you can use Potassium Iodide orally but pretty sure Sodium Iodide was far safer IV and avoids hyperkalaemia problems. Sadly Sodium iodide iv injections were banned as far as I remember[/quote]

You are both right - sodium iodide! Oops.

Spent time in a practice that made the 20% solution up and used it IV in old calcium bottles. I personally wouldn't given the cascade, as long as conventional treatment is working. The response to treatment was excellent. It also allowed a couple of follow up visits to check prognosis.

I was told by an Auz vet they have a proper preparation over there. Could import with a certificate.

RE: Is it me or...

Catriona MacIntyre — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 21:11:20 GMT

[quote user="Seadna "]

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]Potassium iodide is given IV. Every other day until better or showing signs of toxicity. PM me if you want to know more.....[/quote]

I'll take you up on that offer next time I need one, cheers!

[/quote]

Are you sure it is Potassium Iodide? I thought it was Sodium Iodide. I think you can use Potassium Iodide orally but pretty sure Sodium Iodide was far safer IV and avoids hyperkalaemia problems. Sadly Sodium iodide iv injections were banned as far as I remember

RE: Is it me or...

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 10:35:06 GMT

Micheal I hope you mean Na I iv, NOT KI.

KI would be rapidly fatal given iv!

Wynne

RE: Is it me or...

David Shepherd — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 09:03:14 GMT

Back to the OP; maybe all the LA vets are just too busy getting on with it to waste time moaning on fora?...Or maybe they spend too long away from the keyboard to be bothered when they get back? Or maybe from what I hear about the situation in the livestock dense and vet practice dense areas of the country they are too busy chasing work and cutting each others throats?

Re recommending quick euthanasia; that is one of the skills that farmers appreciate most, once you have gained their confidence, and so long as you don't overdo it! Nothing worse for a farmer than to spend a lot of time and money on treating a case only for it to die anyhow. It was easier in the 'good' old days when you could often send the animal for casualty slaughter and salvage some cost for it. Nowadays, certainly in our part of the world, that is rarely possible as slaughterhouses are a long way away and not set up for or willing to accept casualties

RE: Is it me or...

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 08:45:13 GMT

[quote user="Seadna "]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Seadna "] Is this how James Herriot felt when he went to see a milk fever?![/quote]

James Herriot had calcium solutions to give intravenously.

Had he qualified a little earlier he would not have had calcium, but he would have had his air pump to inflate the udder. It worked.

[/quote]

Ah, I have to confess that I never read Herriot...but I was under the impression that he practised in the dark ages, cutting downer cow's tails off and what-not!

[/quote]

Nope, in fact he was very much against the 'black magic' frequently practiced in Yorkshire in those days!

RE: Is it me or...

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 21:33:06 GMT

[quote user="Seadna "]Ah, I have to confess that I never read Herriot...but I was under the impression that he practised in the dark ages, cutting downer cow's tails off and what-not! [/quote]

You should. He gets a bit icky or twee in places, but not too much. The last one or two in the series are poor, skip them. The first two or three are the best.

He qualified in 1939, not 1039!

I don't believe any veterinarian or any farrier or even any cow doctor with any pretensions to expertise ever cut a down cow's tail off.

RE: Is it me or...

Virginia Campbell — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 18:50:46 GMT

[quote user="Seadna "]I have to confess that I never read Herriot...but I was under the impression that he practised in the dark ages, cutting downer cow's tails off and what-not! [/quote]

He didn't cut the tails off! He had to fight all the superstitions like the tail cutting with proper science. He was really forward thinking, learned new techniques and treatments. Also - to gladden the heart of any new grad here getting slated by dinovets for being "unwilling and unconfident to do anything beyond a vaccine and refer it all out"- he recounts the tale of referring a septicemic pyo to a small animal surgeon. (he does go to observe the surgery and gets hammered in the pub with the referral vet after though, should mollify the nostalgic old timers).

Well worth a read.

RE: Is it me or...

Seadna — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 18:36:36 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]Potassium iodide is given IV. Every other day until better or showing signs of toxicity. PM me if you want to know more.....[/quote]

I'll take you up on that offer next time I need one, cheers!

RE: Is it me or...

Seadna — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 18:31:07 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Seadna "] Is this how James Herriot felt when he went to see a milk fever?![/quote]

James Herriot had calcium solutions to give intravenously.

Had he qualified a little earlier he would not have had calcium, but he would have had his air pump to inflate the udder. It worked.

[/quote]

Ah, I have to confess that I never read Herriot...but I was under the impression that he practised in the dark ages, cutting downer cow's tails off and what-not!

RE: Is it me or...

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 15:39:15 GMT

[quote user="Seadna "] Is this how James Herriot felt when he went to see a milk fever?![/quote]

James Herriot had calcium solutions to give intravenously.

Had he qualified a little earlier he would not have had calcium, but he would have had his air pump to inflate the udder. It worked.

RE: Is it me or...

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 15:06:04 GMT

Sodium iodide is given IV. Every other day until better or showing signs of toxicity. PM me if you want to know more.....

(edit NOT potassium)

RE: Is it me or...

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 14:58:39 GMT

If you mean KI - orally I can't remember the strength off hand. Antibiotics - in my large animal days, we'd give them to prevent 2y pneumonia. Not such a political hot potato as now, and (obviously) the relative worth of animals was greater then

Wynne

RE: Is it me or...

Seadna — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 14:25:05 GMT

Bingo. I don't have one single clue how to use it though. Perhaps rectally?

Edited to say that I was trying to reply to Mark's post.