Hamster inscisors

RE: Hamster inscisors

Linda Filshie — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 22:53:30 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

Back to the original thread... as has already been said, you do need to try and work out why the incisors are maloccluded if you can.

[/quote]

Will see if I can get an XR and a look in the mouth with an otoscope next time she's in. The malocclusion seems to be affecting only one side (she manages a Hercule Poirot type of overgrowth on the upper tooth, curling neatly along her lip, and her lower inscisor on that side grows up in a nice straight needle-like spike towards the roof of her mouth.) Given that it's one side that's affected, I'm now thinking I really want to have a look at the cheek teeth and kicking myself that I didn't the other day.

Assuming there's nothing I can do to fix the malocclusion then hopefully the owners will be willing to keep coming in for burring - I certainly would prefer it! - but I wanted to see whether extraction was a feasible option so I could discuss with them.

RE: Hamster inscisors

Stephen Courtney — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 15:43:23 GMT

The hamster shown in the bottom photo has clearly been neglected and there are consequences for that - but i have never seen a client deliberately let this happen because they wouldn't spend any money.

Having said that I don't usually charge much at all to do the burring, especially if it is a child's pet - i see it as a good way to show a kid that looking after pets takes effort. I would be charging about £9 to burr the teeth, and if that was a problem, I'd negotiate something they could manage eg no charge on alternate visits etc - on welfare grounds. Incisor extractions properly charged on time would be £200 plus, maybe more, with all the risk issues, and i'd be worried the damn things would regrow...

Adult humans with small furry pets are usually a different story - often very OTT and wanting the best, including referrals, and happy to pay for it, providing you and Dr Google see eye to eye, or unfortunately wanting the best for free.... not all pet owners are mad, but all mad people have pets!

RE: Hamster inscisors

Liam Reid — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 20:35:54 GMT

Hi again,

I think its certainly worth having a look in with a small otoscope. I agree that the ziplock bag idea is very fiddly. It's difficult not to risk covering the hamster's nostrils with the bag, and much harder to feel what you are doing. I just mentioned it for completeness as I've read about others using this method.

With regard to the point about just continuing to burr the teeth as this is safer, I think that is a very fair comment and undoubtedly true, but I don't think it is always the best solution. Some owners are not committed enough to come back monthly for 2 years, nor do they want to regularly pay for incisors to be trimmed. The hamster I mentioned doing 3 months ago was such a case. The owner had decided that she couldn't afford this longer term and didn't feel it was good for the hamster's welfare to wait longer between trimmings. She saved up some money and suggested that if we could extract the incisors, she'd be happy with that, but if not she was considering euthanasia. In such a situation, we discussed the risks of the GA, the risks of the surgery (haemorrhage, traumatic damage to the mandible / maxilla, etc.) and PTS on the table if things did not go to plan - and the client was very keen to proceed. In this case, we were happy with the result.

I've attempted to attach a photograph showing the 3 extracted incisors from this hamster, to give you an idea of what they are like. The fourth tooth was not present in this animal, nor was it seen radiographically.

If the client is happy to return regularly for incisors to be trimmed, can afford it, and the hamster is not unduly stressed by this - I agree that would be preferable. There are some cases however when the animal is having to come in extremely frequently and due to cost or convenience, the owner is leaving things too long. In these cases I feel that welfare can be significantly compromised. I've also tried to attach a photo of another hamster with incisor malocclusion whose owner would not bring him back regularly enough. This is a case where I would have been happy to attempt extraction, had his owner let me, as I felt his welfare was poor. I was not holding the mouth open for this picture, or holding the mandible to 1 side. This was its position "at rest". In these cases, I do think extraction is justified.

I'm not an expert on hamster incisor extractions but I have had a positive outcome and thought that it was worth sharing.

Best of luck if you decide to go ahead!

Mr. Liam Reid BVMS CertAVP(ZM) MRCVS

RCVS Advanced Practitioner in Zoological Medicine

RE: Hamster inscisors

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 19:10:08 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]So I carry on burring....[/quote]

Which is fine, if the client doesn't mind. I've had a number of such regulars over the years.

Back to the original thread... as has already been said, you do need to try and work out why the incisors are maloccluded if you can.

RE: Hamster inscisors

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 16:49:03 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]. The tooth will continue to grow......... and in a month or two you'll have the same decisions to make all over again.....[/quote]

Which in my case was to give up!

I genuinely don't feel I could be any gentler or use less force...so didn't think it was fair to try. So I carry on burring....

RE: Hamster inscisors

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 16:46:36 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Yeah, I know that, but just meant that I am generally very gentle, patient etc but couldn't see how I could have been any more gentle with the gerbil. As soon as I went near the tooth, it snapped. I' d love any tips....????

[/quote]

Not criticising your technique!

However – is this a tangent ? – it's worth remembering that if it snaps, that is not a total disaster, you just haven't achieved anything. The tooth will continue to grow......... and in a month or two you'll have the same decisions to make all over again.....

RE: Hamster inscisors

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 16:14:20 GMT

RE: Hamster inscisors

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 16:12:43 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

I tried gerbil incisor extraction. Once. Never again. Maybe gerbils are different. Maybe it wasn't a good candidate Maybe it was my technique, but every tooth snapped.

And I rarely have any problem with rabbits...

Good luck!

[/quote]

Well, rodent incisors are not quite the same as lagomorph incisors.

RE: Hamster inscisors

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 16:03:55 GMT

I tried gerbil incisor extraction. Once. Never again. Maybe gerbils are different. Maybe it wasn't a good candidate Maybe it was my technique, but every tooth snapped.

And I rarely have any problem with rabbits...

Good luck!

RE: Hamster inscisors

Stephen Courtney — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 13:37:52 GMT

Personally i would keep burring them! Providing the hamster tolerates the procedure and the owner can be relied to come back regularly for the necessary work, in the long run i feel it is safer for the hamster.

RE: Hamster inscisors

Silvia Maldonado — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 00:51:39 GMT

Amazing introduction to the forum indeed, Liam

RE: Hamster inscisors

Ashley Rubens — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 00:02:14 GMT

We have a rigid endoscope and I still use an otoscope for looking in rodent / rabbit mouths as I find it less

fiddly with a shorter instrument!

What triple dose would you use?

RE: Hamster inscisors

Linda Filshie — Tue, 29 Sep 2015 22:57:14 GMT

Thanks Liam, that's very helpful. Welcome to the forum!

We don't have a rigid endoscope - wonder if I could get a look with a very small otoscope head...must try.

The ziplock bag idea is interesting but does sound rather fiddly - I think IM GA is probably the way to go. I did enucleate a hamster using a facemask to maintain anaesthesia but yep, undoubtedly not going to be a goer here.

I've done a few rabbit incisor extractions using hypodermic needles so I imagine the principle is very similar - patience and delicacy.

Finally, any pics would be fab, thank you!

RE: Hamster inscisors

Liam Reid — Tue, 29 Sep 2015 22:19:24 GMT

Hi Linda,

I think it is quite feasible to consider extracting them and so long as the owner understands the risk, see no reason why you shouldnt proceed.

Skull radiographs would be advisable prior to attempting extraction. It would also be beneficial if you had a rigid endoscope to facilitate a reasonable exam of the cheek teeth to ensure no obvious problems prior to the surgery.

The main problem you may have is in maintaining anaesthesia. Most people will pre-oxygenate then induce GA using sevoflurane / isoflurane, but this isnt going to work for this particular op as you need good access to the mouth - a face mask will not be viable.Intubation of hamsters is difficult and not without its own risks. The narrow bore of ET tube required is at significant risk of kinking (you will be working in the mouth) and becoming blocked (only a small amount of mucoid material would be needed to block the tube). A number of alternatives have been written about in the literature. Some clinicians have attempted a method where the hamster is placed in a ziplock bag. The bag has a small hole cut and an ET tube connector is attached. To facilitate incisor extraction and yet maintain a reasonable seal for provision of anaesthesia, the upper and then lower incisors are forced through the bag, allowing access to the teeth whilst hopefully providing an otherwise fairly closed system for the GA.

I've found this to be quite fiddly myself and prefer injectable anaesthesia, using medetomidine, buprenorphine and ketamine IM. I've found this to work very well in the past. It is useful for your anaesthetist to be able to monitor heart rate using a doppler probe during the op if you have one. A standard digital vivarium thermometer with temperature probe lead can be placed as an indwelling anal thermometer, allowing distant access to the nurse to monitor temperature - it is important not to allow the patient to cool down too much during the GA.

Rather than using a typical crossley incisor luxator, you might find a series of bent hypodermic needles (23 and 25 gauge) well suited to the task. The roots are very long and fragile, so it is important not to rush as you will risk snapping them.

Immediately post operatively, you can try feeding small blocks of cut apple and carrot, de-husked sunflower seeds, etc. but I've found syringe feeding with oxbow critical care to work well. I operated on a similar case 3 months ago and it began eating normally within 24 hours and had put on >10% extra body mass within a week.

I've got some photos of incisors post-removal if that would be of practical help.

If you do decide to do it, make sure you take your time!

Best of luck,

Mr. Liam Reid BVMS CertAVP(ZM) MRCVS

RCVS Advanced Practitioner in Zoological Medicine