Dental question - weird weird Airedale - very long!

RE: Dental question - weird weird Airedale - very long!

Rob Davis — Sat, 05 Sep 2015 15:57:29 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Relatively broad dark lines across some roots, which I think actually represent the periodontal space of apical deformities where the apical tip is curled round like a hockey stick (the "indian Club" kind I used to play with, not these modern fiddle-faddles);[/quote]

Ah... I see what you mean. I hadn't interpreted them this way, but now I look again, you may be right. I guess CT would tell us that.

RE: Dental question - weird weird Airedale - very long!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 05 Sep 2015 14:57:25 GMT

[quote user="Rob Davis"]Why would they extend from the main pulp canals in both directions at extactly the same location? [/quote]

Yes, why indeed?

[quote user="Rob Davis"] If these were geniunely root fractures, then one would expect pulp death with subsequent lack of tooth maturation, unless it was more recent.[/quote]

Yes, indeed one would.

It's a beggar isn't it?

We have:

Grossly mis-shapen roots in the majority of the cheek teeth.

Relatively broad dark lines across some roots, which I think actually represent the periodontal space of apical deformities where the apical tip is curled round like a hockey stick (the "indian Club" kind I used to play with, not these modern fiddle-faddles);

Fine lines across some roots giving the appearance of a fracture, whatever it really is;

Fine lines not crossing the root, just from pulp to perodontal space, in places;

In one or two places, several fine lines, giving ar first glance the appearance of a fragmented apex although it probably isn't;

Indistinct apices here and there;

Clearly external resorption with bone replacement, in a number of places, suggesting at least a degree of inflammatory reaction.

So...... I don't know.

RE: Dental question - weird weird Airedale - very long!

Rob Davis — Sat, 05 Sep 2015 12:07:47 GMT

Cool radiographs!

I agree that this looks like some developmental issue, and if the pain is definitely related to neck and not teeth and crowns / periodontium look healthy then I would leave alone at present. Extractions would not be for the faint-hearted...

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]PS I could be barking up the wrong tree, and some or all of these apparent fracture lines could be abnormal lateral pulp canals. CT could give a clearer idea about that one.[/quote]

Why would they extend from the main pulp canals in both directions at extactly the same location? Surely they would be more likely to exend in one direction only if that makes sense.

Pulp looks similar size in all teeth seen. Abnormal root shapes would suggest developmental disorder. If these were geniunely root fractures, then one would expect pulp death with subsequent lack of tooth maturation, unless it was more recent.

How long have the current owners had this dog. Were there any health issues when very young?

Please keep us posted with any more info or ideas on this one.

RE: Dental question - weird weird Airedale - very long!

Bob Russell — Fri, 04 Sep 2015 13:35:00 GMT

Full mouth X-rays take minutes once you have a little experience. We had a local dental specialist out to spend a few hours to help with positioning etc. Worth its weight in gold.

The most useful help was teaching us to work out why an image was poor and how to alter positioning of plate and tube head to improve it.

It becomes second nature very quickly and retakes fewer and fewer. It cost nothing to redo an X-ray.

Digital systems produce nice big images that you can see without a magnifying glass!!

Does not add much to the bill.

RE: Dental question - weird weird Airedale - very long!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 04 Sep 2015 12:39:03 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

I'm just blown away by the quality and number of the X-rays - how much did that cost the client?

[/quote]

The same as one picture, I presume. This is digital here.

RE: Dental question - weird weird Airedale - very long!

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 04 Sep 2015 09:39:56 GMT

I'm just blown away by the quality and number of the X-rays - how much did that cost the client?

RE: Dental question - weird weird Airedale - very long!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 04 Sep 2015 00:52:25 GMT

Or, with so many teeth involved, perhaps it's congenital. But there is definitely secondary replacement resorption on some teeth.

We are sure the pain is really neck pain? Yes, I'm sure you've checked that.

CT scans are always interesting, although it might just give you a better picture of what you know already......

PS I could be barking up the wrong tree, and some or all of these apparent fracture lines could be abnormal lateral pulp canals. CT could give a clearer idea about that one.

RE: Dental question - weird weird Airedale - very long!

Suzanne Kelly — Fri, 04 Sep 2015 00:32:01 GMT

I've got more rads Evelyn, I think I've your e-mail address I'll send them to you. My yahoo mail had a virus but I think it's ok now. I'll call it "Airedale" so you'll know it's safe. I did show the owner and I've e-mailed the rads to her, she's asking human dentists. I emailed them to a veterinary radiologist as well but she's not sure what to make of them either. I haven't done anything to the dog yet as am freaked out. Oh carprofen for the neck pain, that's all. Would a CT scan help?

RE: Dental question - weird weird Airedale - very long!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 23:56:26 GMT

Wow.

I don't know what that is. Suggests some kind of temporary interruption to growth at a crucial period.... trauma?Bony fracture, cracking all the teeth through, bone now healed? Did the dog carry rocks when young? And I think probably replacement resorption secondary to the original insult.

Peter Southerden, where are you?

What to do?

1. Show radiographs to owner and ask for an opinion? . .... No, I'm only half joking. What they have to say could be very interesting.

2. Don't do anything. Make owner aware of condition and monitor vigilantly for pain (or swellings).

3. I think there might be periapical lucency on the distal of 206, so monitor that one particularly.

To which I would add: if there were to be extractions, they would have to be surgical.

The soft tissue mass probably has nothing to do with it, but please note: "epulis" is not a diagnosis. The word simply means "lump on the gum". If a histopathologist offered me epulis as a diagnosis I would reject the report and ask for a better one.

Oh, yes. Please write this up for BVDA Journal.

RE: Dental question - weird weird Airedale - very long!

Suzanne Kelly — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 22:17:16 GMT

What to do? More rads on request, I've to load them 1 at a time so have given up for now. I only have a size 2 DR but I did do the full mouth.

Thanks,

Suzanne

RE: Dental question - weird weird Airedale - very long!

Suzanne Kelly — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 22:15:37 GMT

RE: Dental question - weird weird Airedale - very long!

Suzanne Kelly — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 22:12:55 GMT