using feline interferon orally

RE: using feline interferon orally

Stephen Courtney — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 14:51:58 GMT

Could well be. The pictures seemed to show lots of little burned dots which over time healed to leave whitish scar tissue. Bear in mind these were cats that had already had full mouth extractions after medical therapy and nothing had worked

the lasering was done over 4-6 sessions I think.

RE: using feline interferon orally

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 13:02:25 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"] Which machine do you use? [/quote]

Ellman Surgitron. What setting do you put the current on? I set mine at the absolute minimum that will cut and not drag which is around 3-4 on the gingiva. Don't need clouds of smoke and sparks!

[/quote]

Yes, mine is the Ellmann Dentosurg 90, which is pretty much the same. It's served me well for nearly thirty years. The power setting stays on 4.5 pretty well all the time. Pure cutting current, no drag.

I'd never use anything except the Ellmann: as far as I know it is still the only make which employs the optimum frequency.

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]

The lecture I attended on FGS at BSAVA 2013 discussed the use of lasers for this, and the lecturer said the reason it helps is that it creates scar tissue which is much less vascular, therefore reduced inflammation OVER TIME

you don't just nuke the entire mouth in one go - several procedures are involved - his comments made sense to me at the time, but no personal experience.

[/quote]

I rather think that not all lasers are the same, and the supposed mode of action depends upon which laser one is taliking about.

RE: using feline interferon orally

Stephen Courtney — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 21:11:56 GMT

you don't just nuke the entire mouth in one go - several procedures are involved - his comments made sense to me at the time, but no personal experience.

Regarding the original post - did you get all the roots out, confirmed radiologically? A common cause of failure is leaving bits of root behind - and you can't drill them out - they have to be removed properly.

RE: using feline interferon orally

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:44:17 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"] Which machine do you use? [/quote]

Ellman Surgitron. What setting do you put the current on? I set mine at the absolute minimum that will cut and not drag which is around 3-4 on the gingiva. Don't need clouds of smoke and sparks!

RE: using feline interferon orally

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 14:58:37 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"][quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]I found that using the pure cutting current gave perfect haemostasis in this situation, with less risk of thermal collateral damage.[/quote]Never experienced any collateral thermal damage in that situation just less blood obscuring the scene, the electrode is only in contact with the lesion for a fraction of a second. [/quote]

Quite so. But in the mouth (and the dermis for that matter) I get perfect haemostasis with the pure cutting current. Which machine do you use?

RE: using feline interferon orally

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 14:23:09 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]I found that using the pure cutting current gave perfect haemostasis in this situation, with less risk of thermal collateral damage.[/quote]Never experienced any collateral thermal damage in that situation just less blood obscuring the scene, the electrode is only in contact with the lesion for a fraction of a second. I do however use if on filter fine cutting setting for delicate surgery like entropians where the cut is much deeper and the tissue tougher, when it can drag and distort the skin on cut & coag.

RE: using feline interferon orally

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:32:40 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I used the word 'cauterise' inadvisedly in my previous post, I meant excise/trim with the electrosurgery unit set on cut & coag..[/quote]

Interesting. I found that using the pure cutting current gave perfect haemostasis in this situation, with less risk of thermal collateral damage.

RE: using feline interferon orally

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:29:52 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]The laser advertising video suggests that it can be used to treat feline asthma, on the basis of one case where the veterinarian applied it over the whole chest and the cat got better. When it's at that level, I remain sceptical.I haven't cauterised anything in the mouth for thirty years......[/quote] Yes when that level of pseudo- science (that is not even pseudo its non-existent) it is very hard to believe any of other claims made for laser therapy, Shooting themselves in the foot doesn't come close. I think cynical then becomes a better word than sceptical.

I used the word 'cauterise' inadvisedly in my previous post, I meant excise/trim with the electrosurgery unit set on cut & coag..

RE: using feline interferon orally

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:15:50 GMT

I haven't cauterised anything in the mouth for thirty years and I never will again. I do use electrosurgery (strictly, radiosurgery) to excise gingival hyperplasia and other masses, where indicated, and for gingivoplasty sometimes, on the pure cutting current.

I'm sure lasers have good effects on many conditions, though they strike me as an expensive way of applying heat. My own anecdotal second-hand evidence about FCGS is that they don't have much good effect.

The laser advertising video suggests that it can be used to treat feline asthma, on the basis of one case where the veterinarian applied it over the whole chest and the cat got better. When it's at that level, I remain sceptical.

Cyclosporine went out of fashion as one of its side effects can be gingival hyperplasia.

RE: using feline interferon orally

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 12:23:54 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Kent"]Is anybody using much cyclosporine for these? [/quote]I hadn't considered it but the expense would not be less than interferon and the potential side effects worse than steroids.

PS the laser therapy. For once I can actually imagine it could work by simply cauterising the tissue, not some snake oil magic hocus pocus of activating stuff within the cell. I often use electrosurgery successfully to cauterise exuberant gingiva so its not much of a leap of imagination from there.

RE: using feline interferon orally

Andrew Kent — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 11:00:08 GMT

Is anybody using much cyclosporine for these? I don't see so many now but had a few successes with it previously - might be another option to consider.

Andy

J Vet Dent. 2013 Spring;30(1):8-17.

Efficacy of cyclosporine for chronic, refractory stomatitis in cats: A randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blinded clinical study.

Lommer MJ1.

Author information

Abstract

Sixteen cats with chronic stomatitis, that had previously undergone premolar-molar or full-mouth extractions, were randomly assigned a group to receive 2.5 mg/kg cyclosporine or placebo orally twice daily Neither the clinician nor the clients were aware of the group assignments. Cats were evaluated prior to treatment and every 2 weeks for 6 weeks using a 30 point Stomatitis Disease Activity Index (SDAI) score. Mean improvement in SDAI scores among cats in the treatment group after 6 weeks was 52.7 %. This was significantty diffrent fom the mean improvement (12.2 %) of cats in the placebo group. During the 6 week study period, 7 of the 9 cats in the treatment group (77.8 %) showed a > 40 % improvement in SDAI score, while 1 of 7 cats in placebo group (14.3 %) showed a > 40 % improvement in SDAI score. This difference was statistically significant. Individual variability in the absorption of orally-administered cyclosporine was high. Trough whole-blood cyclosporine levels ranged firm 32.1 ng/ml to 1,576.2 ng/ml. At the end of the 6 week observation period, there was a statistically significant diference among cats with trough whole-blood cyclosporine levels >300 ng/ml (72.3 % improvement) compared with cats with cyclosporine levels < 300 ng/ml (28.2 % improvement). Whole-blood cyclosporine levels > 300 ng/ml were associated with significant improvement in oral inflammation in cats with chronic stomatitis that had previously undergone premolar-molar or fuill-mouth extraction.

RE: using feline interferon orally

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 10:07:39 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]

....so early days, but I was sceptical, but I will keep a record and keep you posted.

Oh and some impressive responses to OA in dogs so far. And I am a cynic.

[/quote]As the Lord of the Cynics I value the views of a fellow member of that sect. So do indeed keep us posted. But you experience with the response to FCGS with the laser is similar to mine with interferon so it goes into the 'worth a try bracket' before commitment to life long steroids as least.

RE: using feline interferon orally

Kate Richardson — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 23:08:31 GMT

Re lasers, we recently bought a K Laser machine. Very few contraindications except neoplasia. Anyway so far have treated 3 cats with FCGS, 1 minimal improvement (but to be honest only mild gingivitis in the first place), second, excellent response, 3rd, severe FCGS- improved (this one has had full extractions, no response to meloxicam, and partial response to pred.) so early days, but I was sceptical, but I will keep a record and keep you posted.

Oh and some impressive responses to OA in dogs so far. And I am a cynic.

RE: using feline interferon orally

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 21:32:00 GMT

The people flogging therapeutic lasers so heavily claim they are effective on FCGS.

I don't believe a word of it, personally, but you could try it. Ask the laser people for a month's free trial?

RE: using feline interferon orally

Kerry Peak — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 20:18:40 GMT

Thanks for the reply.

Yes he is FIV/FeLV negative. I've removed all his teeth and he was previously coping ok with NSAIDs and occasional doses of antibiotics. Unfortunately he became refractory to this, and corticosteroids do seem to work at the moment but I am keen to try anything else that might help.

RE: using feline interferon orally

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 14:13:21 GMT

You dilute Virbagen Omega down to 50,000 iu/ml (5 Mu in 100 ml saline) and divide into aliquots (20 ml urine collection pots I find are most useful) then freeze them until use. Once thawed don't re-freeze but the solution should remain stable for 21 days. The cat is then given 1 ml daily orally by syringe. DO NOT put on food or dilute in fluid although a tip for fractious cats is to put it with a couple of drops of fish stock which they may then lick up.. Improvement may be fairly immediate but may take a couple of months. You may also like to subdivide the 20 ml so it is not continually contaminated by the dosing syringe.

I probably was at one time the vet with most experience in the UK of doing this and hoped that it would be the holy grail. Sadly it has proved not to be and I rarely use the technique now. It is in any case unlikely that you will be able to withdraw all other treatment and it is likely to be ongoing. Additional antibiotics, analgesia and even corticosteroids in the last resort may be necessary.

Hope that helps.

PS I presume you've tested for retroviruses?